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To: bdeaner

You forgot the part where the pope had him under house arrest the rest of his life. The essence of the whole thing is that the church back then simply did not respect freedom of the individual. This is a huge reason why our ancestors left Europe. It is why we have a first amendment prohibiting “an establishment of religion”.
No man of God should have arrest power over an individual, then or now.

The entire story is of the Pope acting like a secular leader. While trying him for heresy, the Pope had the power to imprison him. This is a power no pope deserves. Jesus claimed no such power, so where did a pope deserve it?
If they deserved it then, why not today?

Now, that said. Not liking the Catholic church today, or disliking today’s Pope, because of despotic popes 400 years ago, is like disliking Prince Charles in England because you disapprove of Henry the 8th. (and thought processes this silly is *exactly* how some decide to hate todays catholic church,,)


9 posted on 05/18/2009 9:54:11 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: DesertRhino
Galileo did not invent the telescope. When and where the telescope was invented is not certain, but what is certain is that in 1609 Galileo heard about the new invention and made one for himself. Soon he turned it on the heavens, and it was at that moment that his destiny turned to fame.

He didn't invent THE telescope, but he did invent a telescope of his own design. He states in The Assayer that having heard of such a thing, he was inspired to put his mind to it, but that he wasn't aided by any knowledge of a design. He was quite proud of himself, and bragged about the "perfection" of his instrument, and I believe that his telescopes did exceed any others at the time in magnifying power.

15 posted on 05/18/2009 10:23:57 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: DesertRhino
Not liking the Catholic church today, or disliking today’s Pope, because of despotic popes 400 years ago, is like disliking Prince Charles in England because you disapprove of Henry the 8th.

There's a big difference however. Charles and his mother Queen E. do not claim any sort of infallibility, (be it ex cathedra or whatever) or lack of change in their powers, or the powers of the English monarchy, from ol' Henry VIII. There's been a revolution (and restoration--and then moderation) of change of the English crown since then which is huge--and is there for anyone to see. No one worries about the "divine right of kings" anymore, as even the most loyal English subject to the monarchy does not believe it.... However, not so with Rome. The same sorts of claims about papal authority are made today--by many on this thread, as were made 400 years ago about, and by, despotic popes. It would be as if folks in Parliment today were taking very seriously Charles' divine "right" to behead whomever he wants... Conservative Roman Catholics still say the Council of Trent degrees (which actually formally curse to hell all conservative Protestants) are in effect, as the Church, supposedly in council, cannot make mistakes. Oddly, when Vatican II says Muslims may go to Heaven... (and also retracts the condemnation of Protestants) nobody goes to the mat defending THAT particular infallible decree. Gallileo WAS condemned for his scientific work, precisely because the Church mistakenly believed certain things about the nature of the universe from scripture and tradition. The pope and the Church (shock of SHOCKS!) erred...and to do so is human. All Christians should be more concerned about the one human Being who does not err, namely our God Jesus Christ, Lord of the Church--knowing it is He alone who saves, while yes, still using a poor weak, and often erring, Mother Church to bring people into His mercy.

80 posted on 05/19/2009 5:45:51 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: DesertRhino
The essence of the whole thing is that the church back then simply did not respect freedom of the individual.

The Church believed the same thing that Edmund Burke, the Father of Conservatism believed: you cannot have freedom without order.

This is a huge reason why our ancestors left Europe. It is why we have a first amendment prohibiting “an establishment of religion”.

Let's not forget the prohibition against abridging the freedom of religion. Never mind that the government has prohibited God in public places.

No man of God should have arrest power over an individual, then or now.

Only those virtuous government gun-grabbers can be trusted with such a heavy responsibility.

138 posted on 05/19/2009 8:13:29 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Conservatism is primarily a Christian movement.)
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