Posted on 05/18/2009 9:12:37 PM PDT by bdeaner
But that, too, was the case in the time of Galileo also. The Church determined who was and who was not a heretic. The state chose to punish heresy, often by death, because it equated heresy with treason, but the Church’s own punishment was penitential work and, at worst, excommunication.
In our system, that is thankfully not the case. The church has no power to carry out any judicial punishments and membership in the church is strictly voluntary.
Wow. And now they're the most science-worshiping, reason-worshiping, anti-literal Church in the world.
Ironic.
The Monarchists are coming! The Monarchists are coming!
Don’t worry, GunRunner. When the Monarchists make their comeback, they won’t be coming to the U.S. America will rediscover its roots as a constitutional republic.
In the meantime, the egalitarian revolution is doing wonders for this country, isn’t it?
“In our system, that is thankfully not the case. The church has no power to carry out any judicial punishments and membership in the church is strictly voluntary.”
In our system, that is thankfully not the case. The NEA has no power to carry out any punishments and membership in the union and attendance at NEA schools is strictly voluntary.
The difference is that the modern state does not punish heresy. As far as the Church is concerned, she is what she always was, — no change. In Galileo’s time the Church was voluntary also. The Church could order the state around only because the people running the state were also Catholic, but the Church did not exercise any direct control over the affairs of the state, including its laws against heresy.
Yes, like I said in my first post; there are no more religious crimes judicially decided by the church.
The church can decide heresy takes place, but heresy is not a crime.
All good things.
liberals believe in freedom for all. They don’t prosecute heresy, do they?
THE PAPISTS ARE COMING!
Objectively, it is a crime, whether the state acknowledges that or not. It is a crime of fraud.
That I'm grateful for.
If Priest Bruno (modern or in 17c) says: “The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was not perpetually virgin”, then he is committing a fraud on anyone who believes Fr. Bruno.
Let me clarify: the fraud is not whether Our Lady historically was/was not perpetually virgin, and the fraud is not in Fr. Bruno stating his opinion on that matter. The fraud is in attributing to the Church a position she does not hold, and doing so with authority.
I ain't that smart, but I went to a smart college (and I wanted to know all about the stars when I was little.) At Saint Johns we really did read the Timaeus, right much Ptolemy, (and more Aristotle - AND Dante) and a little Copernicus and a pretty good chunk of Kepler and Newton.
I'm thinking that one of the things that is being developed in all this is, "Just what IS natural science and how do you do it?" And this development probably accounts for a lot of what seems to us to be church people messing with scientists and the other way round. Sartre or Kierkegaard wouldn't feel a need to develop and explain a cosmology, and Tillich or Pinckaers wouldn't think he had to account for the movements of the planets.
The Church history I got from light reading with inadequate footnotes.
Politics -- is the duty of a free man.
But whatever you meant, your post gave me a nice feeling, and I'm grateful for it. Bless you.
AND if you click the heels together and say “There’s NO place like home,” you end up in Kansas. it is beyond the spheres of religion or science to determine whether this outcome ought to be desired ....
Ari?
Said Aristotle unto Plato,
"Have another sweet potato."
Said Plato unto Aristotle,
"Thank you. I prefer the bottle."
The Church believed the same thing that Edmund Burke, the Father of Conservatism believed: you cannot have freedom without order.
This is a huge reason why our ancestors left Europe. It is why we have a first amendment prohibiting “an establishment of religion”.
Let's not forget the prohibition against abridging the freedom of religion. Never mind that the government has prohibited God in public places.
No man of God should have arrest power over an individual, then or now.
Only those virtuous government gun-grabbers can be trusted with such a heavy responsibility.
LOL! Even on DU you’d have to search hard for someone who will say that arresting rapists and thieves is somehow “oppressive and ignominious”.
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