Posted on 05/14/2009 8:33:53 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
The principle is really quite simple. G-d lays it out clearly in this week's Torah portion, Bechukotai (Leviticus 26: 3-12).
First, we have the condition:
If you walk in My statutes, and keep My commandments, and do them;
Second, the economic reward:
Then I will give your rains in their season, and the land shall yield her produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time; and you shall eat your bread until you have enough,
Third, the security reward:
And you will dwell in your land safely.
Followed by the reward of peace:
And I will give peace in the land.
Now, G-d goes on to explain what constitutes "peace:"
And you shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid; and I will cause evil beasts to cease out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
Wait a second! Doesn't peace mean eating humous in Damascus? Isn't peace two states for two peoples? Doesn't peace mean becoming the Singapore of the Middle East? Doesn't it mean painful concessions?
G-d now elaborates on "peace:"
And you shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. And five of you shall chase a hundred, and one hundred of you shall chase ten thousand; and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
It looks like Torah peace means swift victory with no casualties. That's peace?
Yes, that is peace. Peace is not assimilation a la Shimon Peres. Peace is not "engaging" evil, but rather eradicating evil – even and especially when there is no immediate threat. It is in that case that we justify our existence as a sovereign nation in the Land of Israel.
And I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you; and will establish My covenant with you. And you shall eat old store long kept, and you shall bring forth the old from before the new. And I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you. And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be My people.
Shabbat Shalom,
Moshe Feiglin
Ping.
Just some background information for those who may not know... (don’t know how accurate it is, but maybe others can comment...).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin
One of the big problems for Israel is how to deal with the non-Jew in the state of Israel — especially if one wants a one-state solution with all the land being part of the sovereign state of Israel.
I don’t see how Israel can win on this one, in terms of not falling into the trap of being an apartheid state like South Africa was, of having certain people living in your state who don’t have citizenship rights, but can live there.
And if you do give all the non-Jews citizenship (which I think the world would demand for a “one-state solution”), then how do you get out of the demographic time bomb where the Palestinians will outbreed the Jews and quickly take over the State of Israel?
It’s a no-win situation, I would say...
I don’t see how Israel can win on this one, in terms of not falling into the trap of being an apartheid state like South Africa was, of having certain people living in your state who don’t have citizenship rights, but can live there.
And if you do give all the non-Jews citizenship (which I think the world would demand for a “one-state solution”), then how do you get out of the demographic time bomb where the Palestinians will outbreed the Jews and quickly take over the State of Israel?
It’s a no-win situation, I would say...
Not if one believes the Torah is from Heaven and Halakhah is G-d's Law.
Israel no more lives in “apartheid” as do the damned arabs in their so-called countries. As for the philistinians, preferably kill these islamists en masse and kick the rest of them out of the country.
But they’ll just continue to be cowed, predominantly of and by themselves.
Well, at the present time, for the land that Israel allocates to itself (versus the land that they are allocating to the Palestinians for a state for themselves) — they are not an apartheid state.
I say that, because right now, non-Jews who live in the state of Israel, have been given full citizenship rights (not talking about Palestinians and their areas, now...). Thus, it’s not apartheid. They have a vote, they can put their members in the Knesset and they do have representation.
But, that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was talking about the one-state solution versus the two-state solution. For those who decry the two-state solution, they have (at that point) the “one-state solution” — and that is where you run into the apartheid problem.
You see, if you give all the non-Jews in a “one-state solution” citizenship (all those Palestinians you see now who are not citizens, currently, but are in the P.A. controlled areas) — then with the demographics, they can vote out “Jewish representation” and take over the state of Israel by their sheer demographics.
And the Jews know that, and so they *know* they *cannot* give the Palestinians full representation and citizenship in a “State of Israel” which is “for the Jews” — or else — the State of Israel will cease to exist as a political entity as the Palestinians will vote the Jews out of office and take over the country (again, by their sheer demographics).
So, the Jews would be forced to *not give* the Palestinians citizenship and make a “one-state solution” an “apartheid state” in order to keep the State of Israel as a nation for the Jews.
That’s the problem.
So, again, I say, Israel has a real problem here — a one-state solution (makes an apartheid state or it disappears as Israel) and/or a two-state solution and you’re “dividing the land” — something that God said that Israel (and anyone else) should not do.
Do you see the problem and how an “apartheid state” comes into the picture?
Oh, and one more thing about one particular statement you made — to show you what the “problem” is and how it’s been created and *maintained* over the years....
You said, in part — “... and kick the rest of them out of the country.
—
Here’s the problem with that. You can’t kick someone out of your country if there’s not a corresponding place to kick them “into another country”.... LOL...
Now..., I know that many people think that the other Arab countries should take these people in — but realize — they have refused to do so for decade-upon-decade, and for a good reason.
It’s not that they couldn’t do so, but that they have made it a “political bombshell” for Israel.
If they don’t take them, and if no one else takes them (and no one else wants to; and we sure don’t here in the United States, either... LOL...) — then Israel is *forced* to keep them regardless of anything else.
So, you either incorporate all those Palestinians into *one-state* of Israel and make them all citizens, or you make them non-citizens and create an “apartheid state” or you make a “two-state solution” and thus keep the Palestinians in their own state (that Israel makes from giving away their own land...).
I hope you see the real problem here and how the surrounding Arab countries make it an *impossible situation* for Israel by *refusing* to take any Palestinian into their own land and country. And also no other country in the world wants the Palestinians either — so Israel is *stuck* with them, regardless of what you think of the Palestinians.
Do you see the problem here?
Ahem--why not just follow G-d's laws? Presto, no problem.
You said — Not if one believes the Torah is from Heaven and Halakhah is G-d’s Law.
—
Well, I’m describing things from the natural working of states and politics and the “facts on the ground” and in human terms.
That’s why it is a “no-win situation” for Israel, as it’s being done in human terms and world politics and the necessity of abiding by these world conventions and agreements.
I mean by that, perhaps an apartheid state would be the way to do, and for Israel to keep all the land itself, including the Palestinian areas. But, this would create an intolerable situation for Israel with the rest of the world and set it up for sanctions and embargoes and literally put Israel “under attack” from the rest of the world (if it isn’t already under attack now... :-) ...).
So, I am describing this situation in human and worldly terms — as that’s how most on this board and others in the world, look at it, including our own government, whether Republican or Democrat.
BUT..., from my standpoint..., even though I recognize the real-world problems that Israel has and how it’s in a no-win situation — I see from the Bible that there is going to be a solution, and it’s the solution that is described in the Old Testament and the New Testament — for Israel.
It’s the return of the Messiah of Israel, to this earth to set up the Kingdom of God, upon this earth, ruling and reigning over all the nations of the world.
BUT — until that time, Israel is still in a *no-win situation*. That’s the status-quo at the present time. And there does not exist a “worldly solution” for Israel. There is no solution for Israel, apart from the Messiah of Israel to return to earth and set up His Kingdom and rule over Israel, in addition to ruling over the other (and all) nations of the world.
However, as I said — we are still “here” and we’re not “there” yet...
You said — Ahem—why not just follow G-d’s laws? Presto, no problem.
—
I might, you might, and others might, but that doesn’t make the rest of the world do so, and from what I read in the Bible, nothing is going to change for Israel, until the situation is *enforced* by *force* — by the Messiah returning to the earth, and killing all the ones who oppose Him and Israel and the righeous ones. Upon that judgement and that killing of all the enemies in the world, it’s not going to happen — except within individuals, themselves.
In other words, it’s not going to happen “for the rest of the world” until the Messiah returns and *enforces* it by *force* and *might* and *conquers* all the other nations of the world or they submit to His authority over all the world.
Sinai, or more particularly for those left alive, western wahabist saudi arabia. The Wilderness was okay for the Jews for forty years.
Yet my more “restrained” self would wonder at what God wants having first granted the Jews’ sovereignty in Israel some 3,000 years ago, and continuing it, unprecedented in history, in the present day.
I don’t think God is very high on suicide. Nor do I think he endorses killing but in response to murder. And here, “Murder most foul, as in the best it is.”
And without standing for God, in some capacity other than self sacrifice, would not the Israelis have yielded their duty to His Word?
As Israel stands or falls, so do we, secular or Holy.
Amen ST...I think that will become clearer and clearer to all, secular, holy, jew, gentile...Everyone on earth will know the ruler of this earth the King of Kings...Jesus Christ the Messiah of Israel will save them and the world...
Lt Boykin sees a War in the Middle East happening in the next 18 months...
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