Well thanks for asking...
10. I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church for the mother and mistress of all churches; and I promise true obedience to the Bishop of Rome,
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
As you can see, we are warned against following Peter, or any of his supposed apostolic heirs...
And of course everyone knows Peter would never let a man bow down to him, to pay him reverence...
That should throw up very large 'danger' signs to you guys that follow and are obedient to a pope...Especially one who claims to be a descendant of one of the apostles...
3. I also profess that there are truly and properly seven Sacraments of the New Law, instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord, and necessary for the salvation of mankind, though not all for every one;
Sorry...Jesus became the ONE sacrifice FOR US so we don't need sacraments...We can do nothing...Jesus did it all...
5. I profess, likewise, that in the Mass there is offered to God a true, proper, and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead;
God never asked you for a sacrifice...In fact, a sacrifice by Catholics or anyone would be an abomination to God...The only sacrifice God wants is a sacrifice of thanksgiving...Be thankful for what He has done...
God already provided the 'Sacrifice', His only Son...What can you do to top that??? You going to offer His Son again??? Or continually offer His Son???
You can't offer the Son of God to God for a sacrifice...God already offered His Son for a sacrifice for YOU...
And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.
Apparently that depends on what the definition of what evil is, eh, or what is, is...
You can claim you can sin every day, all day long but your sins aren't bad sins...
That IS a sin...It's the sin of willful delusion...
This true Catholic faith, without which no one can be saved,
And there's the biggest delusion of all...More than half of your church voted in a pro child killer as president...This is God's church??? Not the one I read about in the scripture...
I guess I shouldn't read any of his epistles any more..
Iscool:
I know you and I have been in threads before, and I have asked you this question before, and I don’t think you have ever answered. Just what Christian Tradition/church do you belong to. The point of the thread, at least my take on it, was “What is the point of Creeds” and while you have posted some polemics about Catholicism, a friendly suggestion to you would be respond to the topic, which is the Creed. Others here, who are not Catholic, have done a good job on that point, including some of the Protestant Posters in the the thread.
The Creed is a dogmatic statement of faith and clarifies the disputes about the who Christ is [Christological questions] and defines the Holy Trinity. Thus, for Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, the Creeds are part of Apostolic Tradition, as is Sacred Scripture.
So what is your view of the Creed, which is the topic of the thread, and your particular church tradition’s view of it?
With all due respect, I do not believe you are reading 1 Cor 1:12 correctly. Contextually, I believe the passage you cite (ironically) bolsters the claim for having one, VISIBLE, UNIFIED Church.
Specifically, 1 Cor 1:12. What does it say? The language is a bit flowery in the KJV, so the message may be lost. In my NAB (for Catholics) it reads,
1 Cor 1:12 "I mean that each of you is saying, 'I belong to Paul,' or 'I belong to Apollos', or 'I belong to Cephas' or 'I belong to Christ".
Now, if the passage meant what you are claiming, then St. Paul would also be warning people against saying "I follow Christ". So the meaning of "belong" (or "of" in your translation) cannot mean "follow". The meaning is, as I stated before, from the context, that St. Paul is warning people to not think of themselves as separated from their fellow Christians simply because another Apostle or disciple, or even Christ Himself, brought the Gospel to them.
St. Paul is warning against division in the Church. Divisions that, amazingly enough, closely resemble all the denominations we have today (as they are formed when one person claims to have a "better truth" than the Church Herself, and other people claim to "belong" to that person's idea)
And of course everyone knows Peter would never let a man bow down to him, to pay him reverence...
I've always found this criticism of current Church practice (bowing to the Pope) rather curious. After all, the criticism clearly comes from the event recounted in the passage of Acts 10:25-26.
Acts 10:25-26: And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him]. [26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
To me, and perhaps I'm wrong here, I've always found this specific event replayed every time someone *does* bow to the Pope. If you will carefully observe, every time (or virtually every time) someone does bow, or kneel to the Pope, the Pope gestures to the person to rise up. At least this is what I have noticed. I could be wrong.
However, to put it in other words, the Church doesn't ignore verse 26, in fact we not only know of verse 26, but also verse 25. We are re-enacting the entire event to make a point: That the visitor honors the Holy Father as Cornelius wished to do to Peter, but the sucessor of Peter reminds the visitor that he is not God, so is not to be worshipped as God is worshipped.
So in essence, each time someone kneels or bows to the Pope it's actually a lesson about idolatry, and to not substitute the Holy Father for God, just as Peter wasn't to be mistaken for the Son.
Again, this is just my impression. I don't know if this is true, traditionally speaking, at all. However, even if it's not true, it's still not evil to show respect to someone in authority, or else a Christian shouldn't call a Judge "Your Honor" or "Your Grace", or shouldn't bow to anyone who is a royal (that is, a Christian from the UK shouldn't bow to their own Queen, I'm not talking about US citizens bowing to royals here), etc.
Sorry...Jesus became the ONE sacrifice FOR US so we don't need sacraments...We can do nothing...Jesus did it all...
I've never found this belief particularly comforting either. If we can "do nothing" then what's the point of even professing our Christian faith in a Creed?
And even beyond that, the notion of "we can't do anything" [to cooperate in our salvation] is dangerously close, IMO, to the false notion of "double predestination". If we can do nothing to cooperate in our salvation, then everything is already set. There is no point in going to church, reading our Bible, or even, and this is the most important point, it would be foolish to believe one is "saved" in the first place.
Why? Because there would be no way you could know! If one can "do nothing" to participate in one's own salvation, then that necessarily means no matter what you say or believe, there is nothing one can do to assure oneself of one's salvation.
So where's the message of hope in that?
God never asked you for a sacrifice...
I think to say that is a bit disingenuous, with all due respect. After all, while I, 47, may never have personally been asked for "a Sacrifice", all of humanity certainly was (in the Jewish people). Before Christ, they had to perform sacrifices as part of the atonement for the transgression of Adam. It wasn't until Christ came that the true nature of this Sacrifice was revealed, in other words, it became clear God demanded a completely pure sacrifice to restore Man to his original state. And speaking of that "one Sacrifice"....
God already provided the 'Sacrifice', His only Son...What can you do to top that??? You going to offer His Son again??? Or continually offer His Son???
You can't offer the Son of God to God for a sacrifice...God already offered His Son for a sacrifice for YOU...
Yes, God provided the only truly atoning Sacrifice, and there's nothing we can do to top it. As I'm sure you have heard already, Catholics do not "re-sacrifice" Jesus. We partake in the same Sacrifice at Calvary that occurred 2,000 years ago. Time is not a factor for God, since He is eternal. Thus, He gives us the ability, in a mysterious way, to reach back in time and literally partake in the same sacrifice that occurred at Calvary. What better source of that saving grace could there be other than the original source 2,000 years ago?
Certainly the original source of Calvary is a better source of Saving Grace than is reading the Bible on Sundays and shouting "Praise Jesus!" all day (not that those aren't sources, but they cannot compare to the source from the Cross).
You can claim you can sin every day, all day long but your sins aren't bad sins...
Who says that?
And there's the biggest delusion of all...More than half of your church voted in a pro child killer as president...This is God's church??? Not the one I read about in the scripture...
Why not mention the priest sex abuse scandal while you're at it?
The Church is not a society of sinless people; the Church is a hospital for the sinner. Remember, Christ Himself said He did not come for the righteous, but for the sick. So it's perfectly reasonable (and expected) to find all types of weirdos and sickos in the Church.
In fact if that wasn't the case, I'd boldly submit that wouldn't be the Church Christ founded at all. If you, or anyone, is in a "church" that claims to be "sin free", you have a problem, because you aren't in the true Church at all. Such a person would be in a "society" of "self proclaimed sinless people", not the Body of Christ which can and does save people today.
Jesus became the ONE sacrifice FOR US so we don't need sacraments...We can do nothing...Jesus did it all...
He DID do it all, including giving us His Seven Blessed Sacraments and, in the case of Holy Eucharist, commanding us to partake of it.
God never asked you for a sacrifice...In fact, a sacrifice by Catholics or anyone would be an abomination to God...
Quite the opposite, actually: That notion--which is directly contrary to God's Church--is the true abomination to God.
More than half of your church voted in a pro child killer as president...
A false claim blissfully unburdened by proof.