Posted on 04/22/2009 12:10:00 PM PDT by Colofornian
Hugh Hewitt, a political pundit radio personality, wants the Mormon presidential election runner Mitt Romney in the Whitehousevery badly. He casts his pre-election vote in writing A Mormon in the Whitehouse? (Regnery, 2007). In defense of Romney, Hewitt also defends Mormonism better than some Latter-day Saints (LDS). This is strange for a Presbyterian, as what Hewitt claims for himself. It is possible and logically consistent that Hewitt could defend Romney as a republican without defending Mormonism, but he chooses otherwise. The reason that I find this strange is that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, claimed that God appeared to him and told him that Hughs church, Presbyterianism, is not true. Gods official statement on Presbyterians is found in Mormon scripture. To remain faithful to the prophet Joseph Smith, Romney cannot believe other that what Joseph Smith wrote in his scripture, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph SmithHistory 1:20).
Is Hewitt slipping in his faith? Or is he just plain ignorant that real Mormonism condemns his faith by name? This anti-Presbyterian sentiment (hence, anti-Hewitts chosen faith) is recorded where Joseph Smith had a vision of God the Father (as a male being) and Jesus Christ in the spring of 1820. Smith asked God which Protestant denomination was truethe Methodists, Presbyterians, or Baptists. Smiths vision, as found in LDS scripture, states that these three denominations alone were in Palmyra, New York (1:9). Smith then queried, Who of all these parties is right; or, are they all wrong together? (1:10). Clearly Joseph Smith wanted to know if Presbyterianism (Hugh Hewitts faith) was right or wrong. He was answered by a personal appearance of God the Father and Jesus Christ in New York, where Jesus directly told him, join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof (1:19).
Hugh is in big trouble with Jesus! To be most like his friend Mitt Romney, he needs to repent of his wrong Presbyterianism (since Jesus said so!) and repent of his creeds (beliefs) that are so abominable to Jesus, and repent of his corrupt faith. Of the three denominations, Smith singled out the Presbyterians as specifically not true. Hewitt needs to get right with the Jesus found in Mormon scripture. Mormon scripture is clearly anti-Presbyterian. Yet in the strangest twist of Hughs logic, he labels anyone an anti-Mormon in his book who has the same opinion of Mormonism as what Joseph Smith did of Presbyterians, but nowhere in his book did he call Smith (or Romney) an anti-Presbyterian.
Here is an example of how Hewitt defended Mormonism from his May 4, 2007 radio program:
Caller Greg: The question I have is, I know very little about Mormonism, and my question falls into the cult or denomination thing. I think, was it Pastore, a columnist with Townhall, wrote an article a couple of weeks ago? Its about the sum total of what I know about it.
Hewitt: I would encourage you to read my book, which of course is not a surprise to you, its available at Amazon dot com. I reject the cult title. I believe cult has about it an element of coercion, which is simply not applicable to the Mormons and it is a sect.
Caller Greg: Do you think [Greg was obviously drowned out and cut off the air by Hewitt.]
Hewitt: I just dont believe that you should call . Cult carries with it this wheezing of an organ in the background and the idea of chains in the basement and the Branch Davidian and James Jones and I think it is inappropriate for conversation. And when I see Frank next, Im going to argue that point with him. Cause, I just dont think if if and I do know where it comes from Walter Martin wrote the Kingdom of the Cults, but Walter Martin blames that Hinduism is a cult, that Islam is a cult, I dont think that he calls the Catholic Church a cult, but his definition is expansive. In the modern vernacular it means sinister and the Mormons arent just simply not sinister. Hey, Greg, thanks.
There are problems with Hewitts definition of cult. Hewitt does not distinguish between the scholarly definitions of cult from different fields of study, namely psychological, sociological, and theological. He first defined cult psychologically, which under certain circumstances is correct. Some cults use coercion on their members. He failed to tell his audience that this is the psychological definition and that there are other equally legitimate definitions in other fields of study.
To separate Mormonism from his coercion cult definition, he then tries to separate Mormonism from coercion. Had Hugh watched the PBS special, The Mormons, that aired just three days earlier (April 30 and May 1), he would have seen how Mormonism uses coercion and psychological pressure on its members. I would suggest that he view The Mormons online The Mormons (http://www.pbs.org/mormons/view) and pay special attention to the section on the excommunication of the Mormon intellectuals, many of whom were Brigham Young University educated, but when they intellectually differed with their church, then they were humiliated through excommunication. Also pay attention to the section about the pressure within Mormonism for perfection that gives LDS women a higher than national average of suicide and anti-depressant drug usage.
I dont know how Hewitt missed these things, but a scant Internet research would have shown him a much different story:
Ken Ponder, Ph.D, MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY, Mormon Women, Prozac and Therapy Julie Cart, "Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use," Los Angeles Times, 20 February 2002, A6.
Degn, L. Yeates, E. Greenwell, B. Fiddler, L. Mormon women and depression, Sunstone magazine
Hilton, Sterling C, et al. 2002. Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah. American Journal of Epidemiology. Vol. 155, No. 5: 413-19. Suicide Rates and Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah
Even a pro-Mormon BYU study admits that Mormon women use more anti-depressants and commit suidide more than the national average http://www.usatoday. com/news/health/2004-04-02-mormon-depression_x.htm [Link no longer active]
Contrary to what Hewitt said, coersion, in fact, applies to Mormonism at several levels, therefore it indeed fits within his first description of a cult.
Hewitts next foible was to create a self-styled definition that is not found anywhere, Cult carries with it this wheezing of an organ in the background and the idea of chains in the basement and the Branch Davidian and James Jones and I think it is inappropriate for conversation. From where did he get this? This is not what most people think when they hear the word cult. Hugh most likely means Jim Jones, with apologies to all of the James Jones existing elsewhere. There is no question that the Branch Davidians and Jim Jones (the Peoples Temple) were cults, but what made them so? Did they have organs or chains in basements? Neither one did, but perhaps Hugh was thinking of the famous organ at the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake City.
It appears that what Hugh was attempting was, again, a psychological or sociological definition of cult. I would suggest more sound and scholarly definitions of a cult from qualified writers who list Mormonism as a cult like sociologist Ronald Enroth, Ph.D. (Evangelizing the Cults, 1990), theologians Alan Gomes, Ph.D. (Unmasking the Cults, 1998); Drs. Nichols, Mather, and Schmidt (Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions, 2007); and a host of others, including some from Hewitts reformed Protestant background, like Dr. Jan K. Van Baalan (Chaos of the Cults, 1938; Gist of the Cults, 1944), Dr. Anthony Hoekema (Four Major Cults, 1963; Mormonism, 1973), Dr. Ravi Zacharias (Kingdom of the Cults, general editor, 2006), and Josh McDowell and Don Stewart (The Deceivers, 1992).
Hewitt stated, I do know where it comes from. This I doubt, after hearing his answer. The term cult was first used of Mormonism in 1898. Hewitt continued, Walter Martin wrote the Kingdom of the Cults, but Walter Martin blames that Hinduism is a cult, that Islam is a cult, I dont think that he calls the Catholic Church a cult, but his definition is expansive. Since I began working with Walter Martin in 1976 and I have continuously been on the staff of researchers and editors for his works since then, I think that I am better positioned than Hewitt to say what Walter Martin taught.
Hewitt is absolutely wrong. Martin did not state that Hinduism and Islam are cults. Hugh owes Christians an apology for his careless denigration of Martin and his works. Beginning in 1985, Martin included several chapters on world religions in his best-selling Kingdom of the Cults, but he always made clear distinctions between cults and world religions. What Hewitt claims to know is a fabrication.
Hewitts final statement, In the modern vernacular it means sinister and the Mormons arent just simply not sinister. This has a twofold problem. It does not define the word cults, but perhaps it describes what some cults do. I challenge Hewitt to find any scholarly work that uses sinister and cult interchangeably as mutually definitional terms. A good theological definition of a cult is a group of people basing their beliefs upon the worldview of an isolated leadership, which always denies the central doctrines of the Christianity as found in the Bible (Josh McDowell, The Deceivers, 1992, 15). Mormonism, as what McDowell includes in his book, fits that description with Smith isolating himself from apostate Christianity and creating a worldview in opposition to biblical Christianity that contains gods, goddesses, populated worlds, spirit children, and the progression of mankind toward godhood.
The second part of Hewitts statement, that Mormons are not sinister, is debatable. Mormons are quite often sinister, in spite of what Hewitt claims. We could talk about such sinister things as the Mountain Meadows massacre, or the numerous scandals through the ages, which is why the Wall Street Journal once stated that Utah is the securities fraud capital of the United States (WSJ, 2/25/1974 and Utah Holiday Magazine, October, 1990), but that aside, I think that Hugh contradicts himself here since he admits that the Mormon Olympic scandal, which was an international embarrassment to the Mormon Church, was straightened out by none other than his wonderful friend, Mitt Romney. How can he say on one hand that Mormons are not sinister and on the other hand state that Mormons were caught in a bribery scandal with the International Olympic Committee that Mitt Romney had to straighten out? Queer, isnt it? The Mormons even fit Hughs last definition of a cult with their sinister actions, which is why Romney had to rescue their reputation.
It seems to me that trisham will only hear what he/she wants to hear about Mormonism. Our experiences count for nothing. Perhaps she should go here and see what other ex-mormons have to say about the nasty things they learned about Christians while they were within Mormonism
stuff it deary!:)
stuff it deary!:)
Stuff it; Deary! ;^)
Since Mitt Romney descended from the Pratt clan. (And since this thread originated talking about both Romney and Smith's vision that Presbyterianism was untrue)...when are we going to hear Mitt Romney distance himself from what the Pratts (Orson & Parley P.) said about people groups who Mitt may want to claim as his voters in the future?
Resty; the remainder of your post did not come through.
You'll have to re-type it.
And I also bear my testimony that those untypos typically testify to the truth!
And if you don't; then I will post some...
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY CHAPTER 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the GentilesThere are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devilThe saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable churchThe apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks 2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded. 3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hellyea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end. 4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him. 5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish. 6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God. 7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the othereither to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken. 8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea. 9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil. 10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. 11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. 12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw. 13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God. 14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory. 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth. 16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things 17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel. 18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! 19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe. 20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been. 22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world. 23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men. 24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see. 25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them. 26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel. 27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel. 28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw. 29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me. 30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.
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They knock at your ‘heart’s door’ with their false religion posts at FR. You, as a strong Catholic, may not be susceptible, but there are millions who are not so strong in faith and are seeking. When they are lured away from Christ by a cult, what do you think that does to God’s heart? ... I think I can anticipate your ‘turn it on its head’ answer. Can we know what is the mind of God through His offer of Grace in Christ? Leading someone seeking Him, away from His Truth via a false religion claiming to be even more ‘christian’ than orhtodox Christianity, well, that’s a tragedy and to be opposed by those He calls to the work.
If one believes in one’s religion, doesn’t it make sense to try to spread the word?
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Of course it makes sense. The difference is Christians do not go door to door to the houses of Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Calvary Chapel attendees, etc to tell them their Church is apostate!
The only reason the LDS do that is because they believe everyone outside the LDS church is wrong.
And before you say that we do tell the LDS they are wrong about their faith, let me say that the LDS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. They may believe they are (and most LDS believe they are the ONLY Christians), but that does not make it so.
There is a homeless guy in town who REALLY believes he is Prince Charles, it doesn’t make it true.
Having the name of Christ on your Church building doesn’t make you Christian any more than painting “car repairs” on the side of your garage makes you a mechanic.
Matthew 15:18 describes the LDS perfectly:
“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”
Sadly that is often true. Only God can open their eyes, ears, and heart.
http://www.catholic.com/projects/mormonism.asp">
Confronting the
New Mormon Threat
Why Catholics are easy targets
for Mormon evangelists
and what we can do to keep Catholics Catholic.
Think the Mormons are just a group of nice folks who uphold family values, clean living, and American patriotism? Think ag ain.
Think the Mormons are just a slightly eccentric offshoot of traditional Protestant Christianity? Think again.
Think Mormons are actually Christian, accepting the core doctrines of Christianity? Think again!
The truth is that Mormonism is far different from what most people think it is.
If asked, most Catholics would not be able to explain what Mormons believe. Nor do they have a clue what is wrong with Mormonism.
Therein lies the dangerespecially today, as Mormonism is enjoying a resurgence in popularity and interest, largely because of recent news coverage.
But the news media arent providing useful information about Mormonism.
This worries mebecause, as I said, the majority of converts to Mormonism are ill-informed Catholics who are highly vulnerable to Mormon proselytizing.
Thats why Catholic Answers is trying to head off a potential disaster among Catholics.
And were going to need your help to make this new project successful.
Heres what its all about
What Mormons Really Believe
There are many problems with the Mormon religion. In fact, the problems are so numerous, we had to write a special report just to explain and refute them all.
Its this powerful, eye-opening report that we need to get into the hands of as many Catholics as possibleas quickly as possiblebefore the Mormon juggernaut picks up more speed and takes in tens of thousands of our fellow Catholics.
This report was written by our director of apologetics, Jimmy Akin, who has done a masterful job of clearly explaining Mormon beliefs making sense of them and then charitably refuting them, one by one.
Let me give you a glimpse of what youll learn when you read this breakthrough reportand youll see why its must reading for every Catholic in America today
Do Mormons really believe they can become the god of their own planet?
Why Mormons claim the Catholic Church is a church of Satanteaching a false gospel.
Why Mormons believe God the Father was once a humanand became the god of planet Earth.
Do Mormons believe there is more than one God?
How the Book of Mormon itself contradicts core Mormon beliefs and practices.
What Mormons believe about the Eucharistits not what Catholics believe.
What goes on inside their mysterious, no-visitors-allowed temples.
Does the Mormon church approve of divorce and abortion? (The answer will disappoint pro-lifers!)
Who are the leaders of the Mormon church?
Do Mormons believe black people are cursed?
Is Mormon baptism valid? What Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, said.
How Mormons try to convert Catholics to Mormonismsuccessfully.
How did Joseph Smith translate the golden platesand why did no one else ever get to see them?
Mormon doctrines have changedoften.
Did Joseph Smith develop his teaching on polygamy only after betraying his wife?
Joseph Smith: the martyr who died in a gunfight, shooting at people.
Mormons dropped some of their unpopular teachings in order to clean up their public image and appeal to more Americans.
Joseph Smiths background before he started the Mormon churchand how this affect his credibility
The psychological and emotional elements that attract people to Mormonism.
All thisand much moreis covered in Jimmy Akins new special report. We will send it to you with our compliments when you help us with our project to distribute it nationwide.
You see, the new Mormon threat is more serious than ever before.
With all the talk in the media about Mormonism, more and more people are curious about Mormonism and are visiting Mormon web sites.
But these web sites are deceptive. They do not explain the true beliefs of Mormonism. They try to convince readers that Mormonism is a Christian faithin fact, the true Christian faith!
As one Mormon web site put it, Mormonism is the religion most consistent with biblical Christianity. We do not apologize for our beliefs. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only true Christian church on the face of the earth.
The problem is people fall for itespecially Catholics.
In fact, Mormons count Catholics as their main target.
Over half of the current converts to Mormonism are Catholics.
Mormons target Catholics who dont know their faith.
Sadly, thats the majority of our fellow Catholics. Theyve been nearly defenseless against Mormon propaganda.
It is not difficult to become perfect in avoiding a swearing habit, for if one locks his mouth against all words of cursing, he is en route to perfection in that matter.
Stuff it; Deary! ;^)
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LOL. FYI, that was a quote from Spencer W. Kimball, LDS prophet. Apparently, some LDS missed that speech.
*****************
Why should your personal and unverifiable experience lead anyone to believe that all Mormons are like the ones that you have known? Extrapolating that all people of a group are the same as those you personally have come into contact with may be fine for you, but what meaning can it possibly have for me?
Since Mitt Romney descended from the Pratt clan. (And since this thread originated talking about both Romney and Smith’s vision that Presbyterianism was untrue)...when are we going to hear Mitt Romney distance himself from what the Pratts (Orson & Parley P.) said about people groups who Mitt may want to claim as his voters in the future?
- - - - - - - - - - -
When Pigs fly.
I can always count on you for pre-emptive quotes. ;)
Aren’t you doing the same thing here?
I don’t think you understand. I don’t care what Mormons believe. I do care that they have the right to practice their religion, just as you and I do.
I guess you don’t care that they target members of your own faith. That is surprising to me.
The only reason the LDS do that is because they believe everyone outside the LDS church is wrong.
*****************
So what? What do I care if they go door to door? Why should I care if they think their religion is right and mine is wrong?
If they didn't think their religion was right, why wouldn't they convert to mine?
Sometimes HE uses asses... (Numbers 22:28)
Sometimes HE uses Elsie (is that being redundant?)
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