Posted on 04/16/2009 3:27:40 AM PDT by Gamecock
I have attended Assembly of God for over 20 years. In most cases, we are true to the reasons the fellowship came together for in the first place. Only thing is: I think there are still times when we are too worried about the seeker crowd to be what we are: Pentecostal. Can you imagine being afraid to be what you are? At least for us: they(the pastors) work to control the gifts of the spirit in action among the people so that people won’t leave misunderstanding. Fine, but then again how do you control the wind? In their attempt to be seeker sensitive they become less sensitive to the Spirit. It just doesn’t make sense. I say: be what you are if it is genuine and loves people like Jesus did.
I once heard someone say this: as long as we are in the flesh, when we meet with God Who is Spirit, we will not be comfortable. Our flesh responds to the presence of God just like nature does-with rumblings and submission.
**It’s important to me that sooner or later in some context in every congregation that the unvarnished Gospel gets preached and woven into the fabric of every individual’s heart, mind, spirit, life.**
So when does that happen?
What you do to draw them in is what you have to do to keep them in.
It’s important to me that sooner or later in some context in every congregation that the unvarnished Gospel gets preached and woven into the fabric of every individual’s heart, mind, spirit, life
Ideally. Any more I find myself too often doing what I think of as "filtering for the Jesus bits". I know there's gospel in what's being said, but it's often bits and pieces in an under-nourishing matrix.
Recommended reading: Christless Christianity.
"He argues that while we invoke the name of Christ, too often Christ and the Christ-centered gospel are pushed aside. The result is a message and a faith that are, in Horton's words, "trivial, sentimental, affirming, and irrelevant." This alternative "gospel" is a message of moralism, personal comfort, self-help, self-improvement, and individualistic religion. It trivializes God, making him a means to our selfish ends. Horton skillfully diagnoses the problem and points to the solution: a return to the unadulterated gospel of salvation."
--Amazon quoting what is presumably the publisher's description
Hundreds of years and millions of Christians would heartily disagree with you...Myself included...
Hundreds of years and millions of Christians would heartily disagree with you...Myself included...
Getting asked those questions is not the spiritual food required to keep one from that deception/tribulation that Christ warned us to be learned would come to pass. Remember that 'cup' Christ asked if it be possible would pass, well, it was not passed and sadly it is going to get poured out because too many in the preacher class are only interested in having their pews filled.
You don't think so, well Paul said what happened to them ... was written for our warning as to what would be again to bring in the end of this earth age. And what happened to the House of Israel, well the Heavenly Father divorced them because of their spiritual harlotry and idolatry. And he broadcast them and planted them and even told them they would forget who they are. Else why would Christ say the first sign of His return was mass deception, and He specifically was talking about people who call themselves Christians.
Plenty of truth in your important points.
Thx.
I don’t think so.
THE TRUTH IN LOVE is redemptive. Particularly in a small group context but also in the larger congregational context.
That problem is not unique to the Willow Creek model.
As the author of the book I recommended documents.
Ahhhh.
Thx.
Nothing to be sad about where the Holy Spirit is involved.
IF
you find nothing sad and exceedingly offensive to The Lord on that thread . . .
THEN
I think Holy Spirit’s input on the matter may well not be getting through much at all.
LOL!
**The goal of this model is to attempt to make the “seeker” feel comfortable by making the service understandable and enjoyable.**
Did Christ make all people feel comfortable. Even today when we hear a Gospel — I pray that we all are squirming a little bit, because the message of Christ is hitting a home run into our hearts.
Catholic is the easiest, so I'll start there. Over a 40 year period in America, they retreated greatly on doctrine. Only since the current Pope took over have they begun to take back any of the lost ground. As far as numbers go, they would be showing declines similar to the mainline groups over that same 40 year period in the US, were it not for immigrants.
As far as the LDS, there have been changes in their doctrine over that time period as well. Most have been small; perhaps the most notable has been the role of Blacks.
Horton’s books are always recommended reading.
I don’t recall any major doctrine that the Catholic church has retreated from. They seem to remain firm on birth control, assisted death, the sacraments, etc. And as I stated, they have not shrunk at the rate of most other Christian churches that are experiencing congregational numbers declining in the 40-60% area. Regardless of the nationality of the membership. My church shows increase in immigrant attendance, yet 45% decline overall. Mormons have been accepting blacks into the Priesthood, let alone the church for over 30 years, so I don’t consider that to be a recent change in doctrine.
The change I’m talking about is the mainstream acceptance of any belief from doubt as to the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ to gay marriage approval to lack of real worship and prayer. I have no problem with interpretive dance in worship, rock and roll in worship, any new ideas as long as they are worshipful and respectable of scripture. Unfortunately over the last 15 years, scripture is “interpreted” to mean exactly the opposite of what’s written (read homosexuality). This is not only accepted in the church, but preached from the pulpits. I think it dilutes Christianity when we rewrite scripture. Those churches who remain true to the gospel have not declined as much as those who have diluted the message. I think the Catholics and Mormons have really strived not to allow that to happen.
from what I understand, in Orthodoxy, you don’t have to stand through the service...as long as one person is there, it’s the same as if all are there, so you can leave and come back.
But the only Russian Orthodox church that I am familiar with had pews and services in English...I guess it varies from place to place.
***I recently challenged a global church leader on this new approach and mentioned that Islam, Mormon and Catholic were the religions if not growing, certainly not shrinking at the rate some protestant churches are shrinking, and they haven’t stepped back from their doctorine one inch. He told me, “that simply isn’t true”. I think it so is true.***
The facts agree with you.
The interesting thing is that the only growing Christian group is the Catholics; the LDS and the Mormons are also growing and it is precisely because all of these groups provide a conservative objective theology, rather than a liberal subjective theology.
I often refer to the liberal Protestants as having created their own god in their own image that they keep on the hall stand and rub his head for luck when they walk by.
Many of my liberal Protestant friends are offended but exactly none of them have been able to refute it, even in their own particular lives.
created their own god in their own image that they keep on the hall stand and rub his head for luck when they walk by.
Terephim. "Household gods" -- idolatry. Interesting to ponder.
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