Posted on 04/15/2009 3:57:09 PM PDT by Salvation
Featured Term (selected at random):
The seven forms of supernatural initiative conferred with the reception of sanctifying grace. They are in the nature of supernatural reflexes, or reactive instincts, that spontaneously answer to the divine impulses of grace almost without reflection but always with full consent. The gifts are wisdom (sapientia), understanding (intellectus), knowledge (scientia), fortitude or courage (fortitudo), counsel (consilium), piety or love (pietas), and fear of the Lord (timor Domini).
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Could we read some FREEPER RC CHARISMATICS ON THE TOPIC, PLEASE?
i.e.
I’d love to read some writings by
FREEPER ROMAN CATHOLICS WHO HAPPEN TO ALSO BE CHARISMATICS
ON THE TOPIC OF
THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
That’s assuming that SOME of FR’s Roman Catholics are Charismatic. I know that at least one is.
I would suggest you post them in another thread.
How is it that writings by
FR’S Roman Catholics
ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD
would be MORE fitting on a different thread?
Color me exceedingly puzzled.
Here are the gifts according to Paul’s teachings from I Corinthians 12:
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5and there are varieties of services, but the same Lord; 6and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who activates all of them in everyone. 7To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom (Gift #1), and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit (Gift #2), 9to another faith by the same Spirit (Gift #3), to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit (Gift #4), 10to another the working of miracles (Gift #5), to another prophecy (Gift #6), to another the discernment of spirits (Gift #7), to another various kinds of tongues (Gift #8), to another the interpretation of tongues (Gift #9). 11All these are activated by one and the same Spirit, who allots to each one individually just as the Spirit chooses.
There are 9 gifts according to the Scriptures.
The definition in the post has the following 7:
#1 Wisdom (sapientia): Word of Wisdom
#2 Understanding (intellectus): This could also be discernment of spirits
#3 Knowledge (scientia): Utterance of Knowledge
#4 Fortitude or courage (fortitudo): This is not a gift or charism of the Holy Spirit but a definite fruit of it
#5 Counsel (consilium): This should walk hand in hand with wisdom
#6 Piety or love (pietas): This is not a gift or charism of the Holy Spirit but a definite fruit of it. See Galatians 5:22
#7 Fear of the Lord (timor Domini). Same as #6. Faithfulness
Whoever has taught this has an incomplete list with only 3 of the 9 gifts or charisms (also called charismata)of the Holy Spirit. The other 4 are definite fruits of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life. 6 of the above gifts in Corinthians are not listed.
Paul went on further I Corinth 12 in his teaching to say. Verse 31 implies that one must strive through maturity in the faith to get the higher gifts (miracles, prophecy, healing, tongues, interpretation):
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But strive for the greater gifts.
Go ahead, I just didn’t want the Catholic bashing.
There is a longer list of charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit. I think you have your lists mixed up.
Charity | Joy | Peace | Patience | Kindness | Goodness
Generosity | Gentleness | Faithfulness | Modesty
Self-control | Chastity
Prophecy | Deliverance | Tongues | Teaching
Healing - Miracles | Discernment
Apparitions | Messages
Besides the seven gifts found to perfection in Christ and which everyone who is baptised possesses in different degree for his own sanctification, there are also spiritual gifts for the edification and sanctification of the whole Church.
These gifts are received for the purpose of helping others, they are supernatural gifts that help the faith of those who are benefited by them, usually not the person who receives them but the person or persons affected by them.
For example Prophecy is the highest of these gifts, it has the power to convince others that what is being said is truly the Word of God, it is not so much prophesying coming events, but expanding the Holy Scriptures with Wisdom that touches the heart of those who listen.
The gifts of healing and miracles, are a response of God to the prayers of intercession and while they heal one person, others become convinced that the Lord is truly there in the prayer group, and encourages to pray for healing.
These gifts can be received when a person receives the experience of the Baptism of the Spirit; an experience which is not another baptism, but a very strong physical and spiritual confirmation of the Holy Spirit. The person must be a very strong believer of the Words of Christ and must have repented of his sins with true sorrow and contrition.
Normally this experience is received through the laying of the hands by one who has received the Holy Spirit anointing, we are supposed to receive this experience in the Sacrament of Confirmation, but that is not normally the case. The anointed person lays hands on a person who is repenting of his sins and surrendering himself of herself to the action of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit responds to the purity of intention of the ones involved. It is common to see people responding with tears in their eyes, feelings of joy, speaking in tongues and being slain in the Spirit.
Those who receive this experience of the Holy Spirit become thirsty for God. They continue to attend prayer meetings, where they begin to get involved in preaching the gospel, praying over the sick and committing themselves to the Work of God.
The Spiritual gifts were present in the early Church as we learn from St. Paul [Romans 12:4-13] and then have manifested at other times to the saints and to those who seek God.
Nowadays, we are experiencing an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in fulfilment of the prophecies of the Old Testament. [Joel 2:28]
To prophecy means to speak in the name of the Lord, in other words it means to speak God's Word to others, namely the Gospel. Every one who is baptised is called to be a witness of Christ by word and action. John Paul II is the prophet of our times, He speaks the Word of God in all his encyclicals the same as all the other popes.
Bishops and priests also receive this gift, although not all of them open themselves to the influence of the Holy Spirit, since when speaking in prophecy one is the instrument of God, but some actually having the opportunity to prophesy become obstacles of the message of God.
As a gift from the Holy Spirit, prophecy is given as a message of the Lord for His people. The person receives an interior locution, a very strong desire to say what is given to Him and the words just come [Jeremiah 20:9].
There is nothing to be revealed since all revelation has been given to us through the Holy Scriptures, so prophecy is a sign from God that He is present in the prayer group or the Church assembly.
Most prophecy is heard in Charismatic groups, since many other groups and apostolates in the Church reject the approach of the Charismatic movement.
However not all Charismatic groups are totally acceptable since some tend to deviate from the teachings of the Church, and neglect the Sacraments, specially Confession before the priest, some others neglect the attention that is due to Mary the Mother of God, therefore they dedicate themselves to the study of the Holy Scriptures and in a way they become very much like Pentecostals.
We must remember that the first Christian and Charismatic was Our Lady, because She was totally anointed with the Holy Spirit, in such a way that She bore in her womb the Incarnate Word of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, She spent thirty years of the private life of Jesus in His company and She went all the way to the holy mountain of Calvary to offer her Isaac to the Lord in sacrifice.She offered the true lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world; and that, makes Her the mother of our faith. If we can not find place for Our Lady in Charismatic prayer meetings, then we are not dealing there with the Holy Spirit.
So future Charismatics: Beware ! - Remember, the Holy Spirit is found where Mary is found. If they don't pray the Rosary in your Charismatic prayer group, be sure of suggesting how important it is to be in the company of Our Lady like the Apostles on the day of Pentecost.
In my name they will cast out devils, they will speak in tongues ..etc [Mark 16:17], these are signs that accompany the believers.
People do not believe in evil spirits any more, they laugh about the idea of the devil, they accept the evil in the world and they don't reject it. So in a way to be able to deliver evil spirits one must believe that they exist, and one must have a very strong conviction in the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Unless you believe that the Spirit of the Lord is upon you, and unless you are in a state of Grace, do not dare to rebuke evil spirits from another person, in fact if you try, you will end up having a terrible experience if the person is really possessed. Officially the Church only grants permission to exorcise to certain gifted priests.
According to the Words of Christ, we must truly believe to be able to receive that power of God to cast out devils, to heal, to perform miracles etc [Mark 16:17-20]. We must believe in the Holy Spirit as the Creed says: I believe in the Holy Spirit, that means I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, I believe that I am a temple of the Holy Spirit and that I have been commissioned to bring the Presence of God to others.
Evil Spirits will leave at the command of one who is anointed with the Holy Spirit. There will be signs to confirm that the success of the exorcism has taken place.
On the day of Pentecost, the apostles received the gift of tongues, they were able to speak to peoples of different nationalities who would understand them in their own languages.
However this gift does not only refer to languages that can be interpreted by others only, St. Paul says that if someone speaks in tongues there should be another person who would interpret what he is saying for the benefit of the whole group. There are also tongues of praise and adoration, which are the most common. These are very beneficial for the soul. They are as the language to express communication only between the soul and God [1 Corinthians 14:2] St. Paul recommends that once we receive the gift of tongues one should strive to possess the gift of Prophecy because tongues build the individual while Prophecy builds the whole Church. He says do not forbid speaking in tongues [1 Corinthians 14:39].
We don't know how to pray and we need the help of the Spirit, so He makes His presence to us in sighs, moans, tongues or any other manifestation that expresses our deepest feelings of love for God [Romans 8:26]
Many healings take place at the moment of laying hands on the persons being prayed over, specially when tongues are being said [Acts 19:6]. There is mystery in this gift, since only God knows the language of the Spirit. Visions are also reported to be seen when the Lord is being praised in tongues.
Those who do not have this gift may laugh or criticise those who have it, let me assure you that this is very real [Isaiah 28:10-11]. When I received it I was in tears every time that I used it, as a result I praise the Lord in tongues every day.
I want to relate to you my personal experience with this gift. I prayed over my seven year old daughter who was asking me about this gift and who genuinely desired to praise the Lord in tongues, while I was driving my car with one hand I layed hands on her with the other, a few minutes later She was praising God in tongues, and She was crying saying to me I don't know why I am crying, but I am certainly speaking in tongues.
However we must be cautious even with this gift, since some people possessed by an evil spirit may speak also in tongues and can deceive others. So instead of praising they might be cursing God. We must therefore pray always for discernment.
This is a very useful gift that permits people to expand the Holy Scriptures and to transmit the true teachings of the Church. This is not just confined to priests or religious, everyone is supposed to be a witness of the truth.
Apologetics do a very good job putting together parts of the Bible combined with the teachings of the Church to explain certain Topics of fidelity to the Catholic Church.
Teaching can be the passing of acquired knowledge or it can be also the gift of expressing the supernatural in natural words, namely the preaching of the Majesty and Glory of God, the mysteries of His Creation, the exaltation of the Son of God, and all the beautiful teachings about Our Lady.
By the teachings of Wisdom, great mysteries can be expanded. The mystery of the Holy Trinity for example would be appreciated more when learned from someone who is anointed with this gift. There are no human words to explain mysteries, because that is what they are, but they can be put in words that will touch the soul and somehow the Holy Spirit will make up for what is lacking in meaning.
Healing takes place when we have a change of heart and repent, when we pray to the Lord and ask for His Mercy. The Lord is our healer [Exodus 15:26].
Healing can only take place after repentance and forgiveness. That is the obstacle of many who are seeking to be healed, the reason is that they may still have some resentment against someone, against themselves or against God.
The Lord heals first the soul, then the body [Matthew 9:2-6] as we recall in the healing of the paralytic.
When we refer to the gift of healing we speak of people who have the gift of praying for the healing of others and the response of the Lord by healing them.
Those who are engaged in this kind of intercessory prayer, must pray fervently that the Lord will forgive the sins of the sick person. If you can bring a person to repentance of his sins, then there is a great possibility of healing.
We must be proclaimers of repentance, unafraid of criticism. We must advise people to go to confession when they sin or at least once a month, so that we don't lose the sense of sin.
As we pray for another, we must bring that person before the Lord in humility and contrition which are the doors to His Presence, we must ask the person to live the prayers, we must confess our sins to the Lord and ask for His forgiveness. We must forgive everyone in our lives, even those that we don't remember. We must thank God the Father for the gift of His Son, whom we confess to be Our Lord, God and Saviour. We pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ His Son. We must pray that the Precious Blood of Jesus will deliver the person from all evil spirits. We must ask through the merits of the sufferings, agony and death of Our Lord Jesus Christ and by the power of His holy wounds. We should always seek the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and ask through the merits of her most holy tears.
The person being prayed over, must renounce satan, the world and all those things that lead to sin. All these prayers are submitted to the Holy Will of God and depend on His Will, not our wills. At the end of the prayers, we must thank God again for answering our prayer, we must believe that the Lord is granting us our request because trust in Him is the vessel of His Mercy. We conclude our prayers with praise and adoration.
After the prayers, we must present these petitions to the Lord as we receive Him in the Holy Eucharist and ask Him to cover them with His Precious Blood.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is truly present with us, specially as we proclaim His Word [Mark 16:20].
Many miracles have taken place in our humble ministry following this preceding prayers. Thanks be to God!
By this gift, we receive a feeling inside that tells us wether things are right or wrong. It is very useful when we have to pray for someone, because somehow we receive a special light to guide us in prayer.
Discernment is also very useful when we deal with someone for the first time, or when we listen to a prophecy. There are many voices in the world, we must know which ones we must avoid. We must pray daily for this gift because the devil is the father of lies and he is always trying to find ways to deceive us.
We are bombarded continuously with heresies, blasphemies, lies, false stories and distracting words.
As disciples of Jesus, we must listen only to one voice, His Word. Solomon prayed for Wisdom, and great discernment was given to Him [1 Kings 4:29-30]. Likewise we must pray that God who is Wisdom will fill us abundantly.
Very common during this century is the occurrence of Apparitions of heavenly beings, such as angels, saints, Our Lady and Our Lord.
Throughout the centuries, Our Lord and Our Lady have appeared mainly to the saints in order to pass very important messages or doctrines, such us the doctrine of the Sacred Heart revealed to Sr. Margaret Mary Alacoque and the Divine Mercy revealed to Sr. Faustina. Our Lady in the main apparitions such as Lourdes revealed that She was the Immaculate Conception and in Fatima She said that She is Our Lady of the Rosary and that Jesus wants us to have devotions to Her Immaculate Heart.
The Lord prophesied through , [Joel 2:28] And it shall come to pass after this, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy: your
old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.
In the Spirit of Elijah, these apparitions are taking place in order to bring people to repentance, to show them the reality of God Who is denied and blasphemed. The Lord in His great Mercy does not want to condemn us but He sends His mother or comes Himself to warn us.
Commonly angels precede the apparitions of Our Lord or Our Lady in order to prepare the visionaries for those great encounters.
This phenomenon has multiplied in this last century, the main theme of the messages is that people must return to God, that they must amend their ways and come to the Sacraments.
Our Lady has been requesting that we pray the Holy Rosary, because this great prayer is a miniature presentation of the main teachings of the New Testament, where we learn to know and love Jesus throughout His life, passion, agony, death, resurrection and Glory.
We are given these devotions to Our Lady in order to also come to know Her Who is our Queen and our Mother, our great Advocate before the Lord; then we can humbly come to Jesus through Her.
As Catholics we have the choice of believing or rejecting these apparitions especially before they are approved by the Church. After approval, we are invited to learn from this heavenly experiences in order to benefit our souls. However the Church teachings are not based on apparitions but on the direct teachings of the Holy Scriptures and the traditions handed out to us through the centuries.
We must be careful regarding messages and apparitions, since the devil is also at work trying to deceive and destroy.
For messages to be authentic, we must make certain that they don't contain anything contrary to the teachings of the Church. The safest way to discern is to accept those messages which have received the imprimatur or approval of the Church.
We don't sin if we accept apparitions and messages which are not approved officially by the Church but we may fall into disobedience by promoting them.
There are three marks pertaining to good Catholics, they are :
Love for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist.
Love for Our Lady . Devotions of the Holy Rosary.
Love for Holy Father and acceptance of the official teachings of the Magisterium of the Church.
Any messages and apparitions must conform with these points in order to prove their authenticity and loyalty. Obedience and humility must support them as well. No desire for money or fame must be involved, since that would prove hidden false motives.
Besides the messages received directly in apparitions, there are also messages received in the Spirit of Prophecy, such as dictations or interior locutions. There are also many visions given to those who are seeking the Way, the Truth and the Life, they are all part of the training that God is giving to His people in these times of His great Mercy.
Other phenomenon associated with apparitions and messages is the stigmata, which is given to special victim souls who have the privilege of carrying in their bodies the marks of the passion of Our Lord. [Galatians 6:17] . By sharing in the sufferings of Our Lord many sins are atoned, victims souls contribute with their suffering in the purification of others and they are great intercessors before the Lord.
This last post did not have the Tongues divided into two gifts — like I have seen it before.
Speaking in tongues
Interpreting tongues
Great listing.
I was sort of hoping . . . for some discussion or presentation of how such things are lived-out . . . practiced in small Roman Catholic Charismatic groups.
And, Salvation, I had nor have no interest in being combative nor contrary on this thread about these topics. My only interest was in trying to discover where there might be some congruence, overlap, commonality between the RC Charismatic group experiences and those I’ve experienced.
I realize that would set some RC’s teeth on edge and send their claws out in my direction just on the face of it . . . but I don’t really see that as my problem. It was certainly not something I anticipated nor wanted . . . I just know that some RC’s have that response to seeing my Screen-name.
Thanks, Darth. Maybe it was a doomed hope to begin with.
Sigh.
You are probably right in your prognosis. And thanks for your understanding — one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks.
Appreciate the affirmation.
I !think! that’s what it was—LOL.
No I don’t, there are 9 gifts of the spirit and 9 alone. Paul’s teaching in I Corinthians 12 is clear and discernment is also linked to see how any teachings of man align with Scripture. I have seen tongues and interpretation work to pefection many times. They are two seperate gifts working through different individuals. There are 12 fruits of the Holy Spirit as you have correctly posted from Galatians 5:22. There is a difference between fruits of the Spirit which shape a persons attitude. The gifts of the Spirit are for ministry, ministerial outreach and edification of the Body of Christ. Extra Biblical teaching has its drawbacks as Proverbs 30:5-6 says:
5Every word of God proves true;he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6Do not add to his words,or else he will rebuke you, and you will be found a liar.
5Every word of God proves true;he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6Do not add to his words,or else he will rebuke you, and you will be found a liar.
INDEED . . .
which would apply to any pastor, Sunday school teacher, deacon, magicsterical, bureaucratic board or staff, . . . whatever of any hierarchical RELIGIOUS organization of any denomination as well as it would to any Christian Believer.
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