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To: xzins; fso301
Nietzsche was a flaming atheist.

Nietzsche was a preferred philosopher of Nazism. His “superman” theory fed directly into the eugenics and Aryan directions of Nazism.

I can see where the argument can be made that Nazism also had some pagan influences, but it cannot be denied that Nietzsche's atheism influenced their actions.

Wagner's operas from Norse mythology were a huge factor (and also based on Nietzsche's "superman" theory). However, even within the realm of paganism, Norse mythology is a particularly brutal and "godless". Plus remember the term "mythology" indicates that people have long since stopped believing it.

Nazis tried to make THEMSELVES into Norse gods and, in my opinion, at its core atheism IS NOT about the non-existence of God, it is about trying to make YOURSELF a god.

32 posted on 04/14/2009 6:02:55 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Nietzsche was a flaming atheist.

One thing to remember when discussing atheism, there is no single definition. Many consider an atheist to be someone rejecting the Christian God but who still believes in all manner of "eternal cosmic forces". Such atheist (Nietzsche) can reject the Christian God while accepting Bhuddism, Hinduism or other religions.

Another definition of atheist is a person rejecting any concept of a spirit world. I fall into this camp

Since there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere to... aside from a rejection of a Christian God, it's important to state ones personal understanding of atheism before entering into discussion of the topic. In my case, I view atheism as the rejection of any spirit world.

I can see where the argument can be made that Nazism also had some pagan influences, but it cannot be denied that Nietzsche's atheism influenced their actions.

In the case of Nietzsche, his "eternal return, "will to power" and "Übermensch" probably made their way into Nazi ideology.

Eternal Return is an ancient pagan belief common throughout the World and still present today in Eastern and New Age/Neo Pagan religions.

Will to Power was a common theme for Nazi's and can also be found in Scientology and assorted New Age beliefs. Ever hear of the classic Nazi film Triumph of the Will (German: Triumph des Willens) made by the Nazi propagandress Leni Riefenstahl?

Übermensch. Central to Nietzsche, Wagner and the Nazi's. For the Nazi's, there was an ancient race (Aryan) that came to Earth from another planet. These Aryans while supermen were genetically similar enough to humans that they could interbreed and began doing so. Over time, so much interbreeding had occured that the original Aryan race had lost nearly all vestiges of its former greatness with the the most genetic lines still manifest in the Nordic Peoples. German racial purity laws were intended to prevent further degredation of the remaining Aryan lines and to rebuilt the race to its former power.

Wagner's operas from Norse mythology were a huge factor (and also based on Nietzsche's "superman" theory).

The Wagnerian opera that appeared to influence Hitler the most was Parsifal which was a grail based opera.

However, even within the realm of paganism, Norse mythology is a particularly brutal and "godless". Plus remember the term "mythology" indicates that people have long since stopped believing it.

Here you apply godless to Norse mythology. Certainly not a Christian god, Norse paganism was full of spirit. Odin (Norse)and Wotan (Germanic) were most definitely Gods in pre-Christian Europe. Valhalla/Walhalla was the Norse/German concept of heaven.

Nazis tried to make THEMSELVES into Norse gods and, in my opinion, at its core atheism IS NOT about the non-existence of God, it is about trying to make YOURSELF a god.

Again, I think you are using a definition of atheism that rejects a Christian God while accepting other gods or spirit world. Given the multiple understandings of atheism, it's really important to make sure when discussing this topic that we are on the same page with everyone else.

106 posted on 04/15/2009 12:00:26 PM PDT by fso301
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