Posted on 03/25/2009 1:14:14 AM PDT by OPREV
Nineteen hundred and seventy five years ago, This is the discussion that went on between Jesus and his disciples -
Mat 24:3 As Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him in private. "Tell us when all this will be," they asked, "and what will happen to show that it is the time for your coming and the end of the age."
Mat 24:4 Jesus answered, ....
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
And the most important part ----
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.
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Jesus told the disciples he would come back and take them to heaven in their lifetime. If he didn't come back, then, he lied.
Another translation of verse 34
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till ALL these things be accomplished.
Jesus told the disciples that their generation would not pass away, until he came back and took them to heaven.
Jesus came back, in the 1st century, like he said he would, and, his angels gathered the elect and they went back to heaven. Which means, we live in the millenium.
Rev 20:4 ...and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, ... and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The Greek word used for the "thousand years" is chilioi. Chilioi is a plural word, meaning, 2000, or more. Thus, the millenium would be 2000 or more years.
And we would be at this point in history -
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the next thing we would see is, the Bride coming out of Heaven
Rev 21:9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Jesus came back & the early church left, with him. The rapture is past, the beast & false prophet also, the two witnesses are long gone, as are the 144,000. We live at the very end of history, when Satan is let loose, the armies from the North attack God's people, fire from the sky comes down and kills them, and there is a new heaven and new earth. And the final act is the Bride coming out of heaven. And then it's over. :)
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Act 8:9 And a certain man, by name Simon, was before in the city using magic, and amazing the nation of Samaria, saying himself to be a certain great one,
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ.
Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn aside the proconsul from the faith.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
This happened also. Anyone care to actually research it on their own? 0_o rolls eyes
>>>EXACTLY! Thank you!! I have never seen such smug condescension. Some people believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation, some believe it will happen 3.5 years into the tribulation, and others believe it won't happen until the tribulation is over. It's the latter group who ridicule those in the first group, and I don't get it. David Jermiah is currently doing an excellent teaching on the book of Daniel, and in his messages "Tribulation 1" and "Tribulation 2", he explains very clearly why he believes the rapture will happen before the tribulation. As far as those who believe we will be here on earth throughout the Tribulation, I say, "Go for it!" Eventually we will find out who was right and who was wrong, and I suspect when that time comes, no one will care.
The tribulation already happened. The only thing you will see is the last war(Rev 20:7-9).
Act 11:19 They therefore that were scattered abroad upon the tribulation that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phoenicia, and Cyprus, and Antioch, speaking the word to none save only to Jews.
Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church which was in Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king put forth his hands to afflict certain of the church. Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act 12:3 And when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also.
Rev 1:9 I John, your brother and partaker with you in tribulation and kingdom and patience which are in Jesus, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 2:9 I know thy tribulation, and thy poverty (but thou art rich), and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
I just looked at some of it. Pretty cool stuff. :)
Of course, he calls the Spirit of Christ a "she," which is odd. ;) Lol.
http://www.shemtov.org/chapter_mat_23_hebrewenglish.html
Sorry, dude. Your interpretation of this wide variety of cherry picked scriptures just doesn’t hold up. Good luck, though.
I suppose if you were eaten by dogs, crucified, or burned alive, you'd feel differently. But, whichever. :)
Tacitus on Christian Persecution
"He [Emperor Nero] falsely charged with guilt, and punished with the most fearful tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were [generally] hated for their enormities.
Accordingly first those were arrested who confessed they were Christians; next on their information, a vast multitude were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of "hating the human race.
In their very deaths they were made the subjects of sport: for they were covered with the hides of wild beasts, and worried to death by dogs, or nailed to crosses, or set fire to, and when the day waned, burned to serve for the evening lights. Nero offered his own garden players for the spectacle, and exhibited a Circensian game, indiscriminately mingling with the common people in the dress of a charioteer, or else standing in his chariot. For this cause a feeling of compassion arose towards the sufferers, though guilty and deserving of exemplary capital punishment, because they seemed not to be cut off for the public good, but were victims of the ferocity of one man."
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
I just looked at some of it. Pretty cool stuff. :)
Of course, he calls the Spirit of Christ a "she," which is odd. ;) Lol.
http://www.shemtov.org/chapter_mat_23_hebrewenglish.html
And OBTW Dove is feminine in the Greek
The web site is in error; what is identified as
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
Matthew 23:16 is in fact Matthew 3:16. and he saw spirit of Elohim coming down like dove and she ministered over him.
Worth repeating
2ndTimothy 2:17-18
That's a faulty translation. While "dove" is feminine in Greek, there is no personal pronoun "she" in the original Greek text.
The proper translation is something like:
"... and He saw the Spirit of God (theos) descending as a dove and coming upon Him."
Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Paps is used only four times in the Bible and the other three it is always used for females. So, what is being said?
Gen.1:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor (and) female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
What is your thought on why that particular word was chosen in describing Christ?
Lol. Now that was pretty damn Funny! :D
Would be an interesting topic though. The feminine and masculine aspects of God. Although, i'm a guy so, I probably wouldn't read it. Lol. ;) :D
The Greek word in Rev. 1 is mastos, and it happens to be a masculine noun even though it can be used to refer to the beasts of both men and women.
Then why not select "chest" instead? This reference is not masculine...at all. It is deliberately female and I don't think that should be overlooked or thought intellectually unsound or explained away.
There is a reason paps was used.
But you clearly have not figured out the reason.
The translators of the KJV used the 17th century equivalent of mastos to render Rev. 1:13. There was no sexual connotation in that word in the 17th century. Breasts are breasts. We all have them. All the modern translations say “chest” or “breast”. The fact that in Greek it is a masculine noun is far more significant than your misunderstanding of an archaic English word.
pap
NOUN: 1. Midland U.S. A teat or nipple. 2. Something resembling a nipple.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English pappe, probably from Latin papilla.pa•pil•la
NOUN: 1. A small nipplelike projection, such as a protuberance on the skin, at the root of a hair or feather, or at the base of a developing tooth. 2. One of the small, round or cone-shaped protuberances on the top of the tongue that contain taste buds. 3. A pimple or pustule. 4. Botany A minute projection on the surface of a stigma, petal, or leaf.
Trying to read something into the passage that is not there is exegetically dangerous.
Because you don't agree with it doesn't mean...I didn't figure it out. :)
All of us have breasts...all of us do not have paps. For instance...in the same book the same 17th century translators used:
Revelation 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the Temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Trying to read something into the passage that is not there is exegetically dangerous.
Trying to overlook something in a passage and explain it as something else...could also be dangerous. In this case, I don't think that applies but at the same time I would question if full understanding of that verse could be achieved if one didn't accept the word for what it is.
I did see post 193. See Post #197 :)
That's a faulty translation. While "dove" is feminine in Greek, there is no personal pronoun "she" in the original Greek text.
The proper translation is something like:
"... and He saw the Spirit of God (theos) descending as a dove and coming upon Him."
Matthew in his writings was the one who demonstrated the Messiahship of Yah'shua. It from a book called the Hebrew Yeshua vs the Greek Jesus analyzing The author Nehemia Gordon is a Karaite Jew unencumbered by Rabbinism The quote is from the Hebrew Matthew know as Shem-Tov.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
the subtle differences between the Hebrew and Greek translations.
Well, that may be, but whoever translated Matthew into Hebrew from the Greek original missed it on this one.
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