Posted on 03/24/2009 8:33:57 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
There are some people who won't ever leave the Episcopal Church. For example, they may have ancestors buried in the church yard and just can't bear the thought of going anywhere else no matter what. Some joined the Church for its bricks and mortar, so they're going to stay with them. And there are many in the Episcopal Church who actually believe the doctrines that it now espouses (however foolish that may be). But many–perhaps even the majority–of those currently attending the Episcopal Church disagree with its new doctrines and yet they continue attending.
This is perplexing to Evangelicals in the Common Cause Partnership, for whom doctrinal purity is the highest priority. However, despite multiple reports of its demise, Broad Church Anglicanism–reformed catholicism–is still very much alive in the Episcopal Church (even in Virginia, despite the peculiarities of 'Virginia Churchmanship') and they will keep attending until they are given an alternative that is sufficiently better in their eyes. Just being marginally better isn't sufficient to motivate most people to change their Church and being better in doctrine won't offset deficiencies in worship. Therefore, to effectively reach Episcopalians, the message needs to emphasize worship and the Sacraments, not doctrinal purity.
Most Common Cause parishes don't compare favorably with neighboring Episcopal parishes in worship and the Sacraments. In most cases, the problem isn't due to size or limited financial resources, but to attitude–'snake-belly' low services and sloppy celebrations of the Eucharist don't appeal to most Episcopalians. Aesthetics are also important: the appearance of the sanctuary or other worship site can often be improved without spending a lot of money. Music can easily be adapted to be like that of neighboring Episcopal or Roman Catholic parishes. But neither of these will be effective without a change in attitude regarding the Real Presence. It is often said in marketing that "enthusiasm sells," but "sincerity convinces."
One of the early messages from Common Cause that's still being communicated is that the Episcopal Church no longer believes in the authority of Scripture. That's true and it's highly effective with Evangelicals, especially when we point out that the hierarchy of the Episcopal Church have publicly denied the uniqueness of salvation through Jesus Christ, which makes His sacrifice on the Cross unnecessary and denies that He is the Only-Begotten Son of God, which is a denial of the Faith upon which Christ built His Church (see Mt 16:16-18).
But that message needs to be adapted for Episcopalians. Most Episcopalians stay because they don't think the Episcopal Church's heresy affects their parish, so Common Cause needs to point out that if the Episcopal Church is hierarchical–as it maintains in its law suits–heresy 'flows downhill', so the hierarchy's heresy makes the Sacraments in all of its parishes of questionable validity.
We shouldn't argue that the Sacraments in every Episcopal parish are not valid, but there's no reason to assume that they are valid. Just as it would be presumptuous of us to say the Holy Spirit won't make the Sacraments valid because of their heresy, it is presumptuous of Episcopalians to assume the Holy Spirit will make them into the Body and Blood of Christ despite their heresy.
When the Glory of the Lord departed from the Temple, God left by degrees. He would have stayed if they had repented, but when they didn't He departed (Ezekiel 10:8-22). To put it in the vernacular, at some point God says "Enough is enough" and leaves. Has that happened to the Episcopal Church yet–has the Light been turned off? Episcopalians can no longer assume the Sacraments in their parish are valid, so there's no good reason for staying. And that's a message that reformed catholics can understand.
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bump for later
Boy, those sentences really hit me like a thunderbolt. I was raised Episcopalian and there's a great part of my heart that is still with the Episcopal Church, but I haven't attended in a number of years, since the usual message of the sermons was "Write Us A Big Check So We Can Pursue Our Far-Left Agenda." It never occurred to me, though, that despite the presence of some beautiful and devout people, God might have actually left that parish. Chilling thought.
Better title for the article:
Why people don’t leave the church they are in
It’s not a phenomena exclusive to the Episcopals. RCC, ELCA, PCUSA, Methodists, etc.
If my church ever abandons biblical doctrine, if it cannot be corrected I am gone. Just as I am conservative first, and republican second, when it comes to religion, it’s God first, denomination second.
If someone wrote a similar article about Catholic beliefs, all the Catholics would be screaming bloody murder and calling the poster a bigot.
You've been reading my mail, haven't you?
bookmark
no i haven’t lately, i lost your password.
You are correct that the “phenomena is not exclusive to the Episcopals”(sic); however, the article was written specifically about the current errors, apostasy and heresy rampant in The Episcopal Church. It is as it is. I pray your church is not so affected.
The physical structure and design of most Episcopal churches, even the more humble (if that’s a word that can ever apply here), rural ones, is beautiful. Great proportion. There was love and inspiration there at some point.
I’ll leave it at that.
In my Catholic church, I’ve encountered several ex Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians (and at least 2 former pastors from these faiths). When asked why they left, the answers they gave were varied yet fell within five main themes...
(1) 30%
Their church was becoming too liberal. Gay marriage and gay priests was the last straw. (Methodist and Episcopal)
(2) 30%
The more they read into the writings of the early church fathers, the more they realized that there were Catholic.
(Baptist)
(3) 20%
They questioned the motives of Luther and Calvin and how a simple act or rebelling from the Catholic Church had been altered and shaped (over time) to the “whims of man”. (Lutheran)
(4) 15%
The power of the Holy Spirit, and a close observation of the faith, compelled them to convert.
(5) 5%
Marriage to a Catholic so as to have continuity (especially when they had children).
Thanks, my denomination is very conservative. Every one has the same challenges to face because we are all in the world but so far it’s been holding its own well.
Hope you’re in a solid one as well.
Before some do the happy dance or go into a rage check the source to the article
Traditional Orthodox
Anglo-Catholic
A combination of the 1928 BCP folks and probably more traditional Catholic than many R Catholic Parishes.
Thank you for posting that.
Add LCMS to the list. Though it was hard, my family had to leave. We have now joined with others to begin a small, conservative, TRADITIONAL, independent Lutheran church. We are so happy to be free of the weekly decline into the liberal secular take-over.
If someone wrote a similar article about Catholic beliefs, all the Catholics would be screaming bloody murder and calling the poster a bigot.
If a person wrote an article about how some Catholics don't leave the Church after the heirarchy "publicly denied the uniqueness of salvation through Jesus Christ" and denied "that He is the Only-Begotten Son of God" you think Catholics might be upset? Could it be because those things are not in fact true? Why would objecting to that suggestion be mere sensitivity, as you seem to imply? The Church, neither collectively or in its magesterium, has ever promoted or adopted any such heresies. Unfortunately these things do seem to apply to the Episcopal Church, which is a big difference.
I will say though that I think the tone of this "article" is a bit nasty. It seems to view salvation as a marketing strategy, and I get as much impression of opportunism at increasing one movement's membership rosters as I do any hope for helping the lost.
Also, from a Catholic POV, his argument that the sacraments celebrated under the aegis of a heretical bishop are invalid sounds a lot like the heresy of Donatism. (Which ought to be a heresy for Episcopalians as well!)
I usually reserve the term "bigot" for people who make comments that are objectively bigoted by any reasonable definition of the term ("Almost all Catholics are drunks.") or who aggressively insist on their own interpretation of Catholic beliefs ("Catholics kill Jesus at every Mass!")despite the continued and clear denial, by actual Catholics, that they believe any such thing.
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