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Old Calvinism is Now the New Calvinism
American Vision ^ | March 23, 2009 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 03/23/2009 11:32:12 AM PDT by topcat54

Calvinism is back,” so says David Van Biema in the March 22, 2009 issue of Time magazine. Calvinism is listed as one of “10 ideas changing the world Right now.” It’s third on the list. When most people hear the word “Calvinism,” they bite down only on the gristle of predestination and then spit out the whole piece of meat. There is much more to Calvinism that is obscured by the misapplied aversion to particular redemption. As a student at Reformed Theological Seminary in the 1970s, I was taught that certain cultural applications flowed from a consistent application of Calvinism. Calvinism is synonymous with a comprehensive biblical world-and-life view. Simply put, I was told that the Bible applies to every area of life. To be a Calvinist is to make biblical application to issues beyond personal salvation (Heb. 5:11–14).

(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: calvinism
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To: Blogger
And we’re particularly lazy in that regard.

Yes, but the LORD gave us the fellowship of our brothers and sisters in Christ and most importantly the Holy Spirit to convict us in our sin.

81 posted on 03/23/2009 5:54:59 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Augustinian monk

I am not a Methodist and do not accept infant baptism. I believe in baptism after a person has believed and has received Jesus for their salvation. If you want to believe that John Calvin was saved through infant baptism, then that is your choice.


82 posted on 03/23/2009 5:56:11 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: wmfights

Yes he did. But a lot of times if the speaker is know to be generally orthodox in belief, we kinda go tone deaf for when something they say isnt’ quite in alignment with Scripture. Usually, however, you get that little ‘check’ when something isn’t quite right.


83 posted on 03/23/2009 5:59:09 PM PDT by Blogger (Pray and Prepare)
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To: Buddygirl
I stand on believing that you are saved when you believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Amen!

1Cor. 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The question that twists my brain is "when did I first believe?" Was it my decision to believe, or was it irresistible grace that drew me?

84 posted on 03/23/2009 6:03:41 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Blogger
...we kinda go tone deaf for when something they say isnt’ quite in alignment with Scripture. Usually, however, you get that little ‘check’ when something isn’t quite right.

You are so right!

I find myself going back to my Bible and looking for myself.

85 posted on 03/23/2009 6:13:42 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

Is grace irresistible? Not according to Acts 7:51. Stephen accused the Jews of resisting the Holy Spirit. So, people have resisted God’s grace and not been saved.

Really it is combination of the two, God’s grace and one’s believing that saves a person.


86 posted on 03/23/2009 6:32:21 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: Buddygirl

***Catholics believe you have to be saved through the Roman Catholic Church. It is one of their sacraments.***

Did you get this off a hysterical and multicoloured website?

***I believe we can be saved without the RCC.***

Radio Controlled Cars? Randomly Created Colours? Radical Creature Comforts?

***I stand on believing that you are saved when you believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.***

Good for you. That’s a lot of belief.


87 posted on 03/23/2009 6:35:34 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: raynearhood; topcat54; HarleyD; wmfights; Blogger
“He didn’t explain why the new calvinism needs to abandon amillennial eschatology along with other less than historic Reformed qualities.”

DeMar is being consistent with his bizarre eschatology. He explained his position in a previous article. In an article posted by topcat concerning Billy Graham he said, “prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the prophetic events of Revelation were fulfilled during the lifetime of those who first read the prophecy”.

In DeMar’s world there is no room for pre-mil, post-mil or amil since each system posits some prophecy in Revelation yet to be fulfilled; at a minimum the second advent and judgment. DeMar writes all of this has taken place so you can see why he says “new calvinism needs to abandon amillennial eschatology” since all prophecy has been fulfilled.

88 posted on 03/23/2009 6:46:11 PM PDT by enat
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To: Buddygirl
Is grace irresistible? Not according to Acts 7:51. Stephen accused the Jews of resisting the Holy Spirit.

If God wanted them to be His could they resist?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing...

Isn't it more likely God wanted them to be resistant so that salvation would come to all men and not just the Jews?

89 posted on 03/23/2009 6:55:46 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: enat; raynearhood; topcat54; HarleyD; wmfights; Blogger
...he says “new calvinism needs to abandon amillennial eschatology” since all prophecy has been fulfilled.

He's right that new calvinism needs to abandon amillennial eschatology but for the wrong reason. It's that prophecy has not been fulfilled.

90 posted on 03/23/2009 7:11:35 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; raynearhood; topcat54; HarleyD; Blogger

“He’s right that new calvinism needs to abandon amillennial eschatology but for the wrong reason. It’s that prophecy has not been fulfilled”

Yeah, I know that and you know that but DeMar thinks there is nothing left to happen. I guess his eschatology or what’s left of it is like the old Peggy Lee torch song;

“Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that’s all there is my friends, then let’s keep dancing
Let’s break out the booze and have a ball
If that’s all there is”

DeMar is a promoter like Lindsey and LeHaye. They have to be controversial in order to hawk their wares.


91 posted on 03/23/2009 7:22:16 PM PDT by enat
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To: MarkBsnr

FYI, I got it off the Roman Catholic Church’s website. I hope you will be perfect in your replies when you stand before the Lord because I am not perfect but I know I am saved. Smile...


92 posted on 03/23/2009 7:29:52 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: wmfights

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that Stephen knew that one can resist the grace of God is the topic of the verse.

When we receive Jesus, the Spirit gives life.


93 posted on 03/23/2009 7:33:12 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: Blogger
The local body of believers may disfellowship a person for going off in what that body of believers believes is an errant way; however, ultimately, the judge of one’s beliefs will be how it aligned with Scripture - not the church.

But is an ecclesiastical body says the Bible says A and you claim it says B, which interpretation is the correct one?

94 posted on 03/23/2009 7:33:36 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Naysayers" laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

To: Buddygirl; wmfights
Really it is combination of the two, God’s grace and one’s believing that saves a person.

Well, praise be to you!

96 posted on 03/23/2009 7:38:22 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Naysayers" laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: Blogger; raynearhood; HarleyD; wmfights
If you are speaking in terms of what you believe, yes. If you are speaking in terms of what the majority believes, then no.

Have you been taking polls?

Why do you think they call it "The Five Points of Calvinism"? Because a mere 5 points is not the sum and substance of Calvinism.

You seem to have a problem with my taking the Bible as my core authority on everything.

Everybody thinks they beleive some form of sola Scriptura. I happen to think that everything that defines Real Calvinism® is based on the Bible alone. You suggested it was dung. The only difference I can see is that your interpretation of some things vis-a-vis the Bible doesn't mesh with Calvin's interpretation of those same things. Which one is actually dung is left to the reader.

97 posted on 03/23/2009 7:45:10 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Naysayers" laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: topcat54

Wrong question because it doesn’t matter.

If a church body says the Bible says A and I say it says B, and if the difference is strong enough, that church could dismiss me from its membership. But in the end, it doesn’t matter what the church’s interpretation or my interpretation are. I will be judged by the Word of God, both written and living.

Just because there is a group of folks in a building calling themselves a church does not mean they are in line with Scripture. Scripture says that some will rise up among the elect who will deceive others. Likewise, it talks about grievous wolves entering in not sparing the flock. In Revelation, it talks about that wicked Jezebel coming into a church and gaining a hellish followership.

God has given the body of Christ certain authority on earth. But that authority is limited. A church can not declare ‘true’ what Scripture says is ‘false.’ And, the church is not the ultimate judge of the human soul. Christ is, and His Word is His Revelation to us of what His will is.


98 posted on 03/23/2009 7:47:51 PM PDT by Blogger (Pray and Prepare)
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To: Blogger

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

Blogger, Am kind of grieving . . . I’m still coming to grips with the fact . . . that have known to some degree all my life . . . and increasingly year by year . . . but thunderously more evident in the last weeks . . .

that many folks I love and care for are sliding toward hell as though they were racing on a greased slide—AND THERE’S NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT FOR FAR TOO MANY—MOST OF THEM.

AND

Some ‘Christians’ seem caught up in similar exercises, futilities, damnable perspectives, attitudes, convictions, . . .

Some probably love The Lord authentically enough and purely enough that somehow The Lord will pull them through in His Grace and Mercy.

Others have made ideas, groups, denominations, doctrines of men etc. such idols . . . they make the RC’s look tame by comparison. One beings to wonder how much hope there is for how many of such “Christians.”

Very saddening.

Nevertheless, all we can do is pray and assert the Biblical truths as we feel led . . . in as much caring and love as we can muster BY HIS GRACE.

Thanks for your contributions.


99 posted on 03/23/2009 7:49:51 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54
Everybody thinks they beleive some form of sola Scriptura. I happen to think that everything that defines Real Calvinism® is based on the Bible alone. You suggested it was dung. The only difference I can see is that your interpretation of some things vis-a-vis the Bible doesn't mesh with Calvin's interpretation of those same things. Which one is actually dung is left to the reader.
Don't lie about what I said. I did not call Calvinism dung, and I have been quite explicit about saying that. I am a Calvinist. Still, I am a Calvinist not because John Calvin taught it or some church declared it good - but because the doctrines of grace taught by John Calvin, neatly summarized in the construct "TULIP" are found in Scripture. It's like the Bereans. Paul was teaching all sorts of things to the church they hadn't heard or recognized before. They compared his teaching with Scripture.

Where Calvin was in alignment with Scripture, I'm cool with Calvin. Where he wasn't, I depart without apology.
100 posted on 03/23/2009 7:51:18 PM PDT by Blogger (Pray and Prepare)
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