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Thank you for the ping, greyfoxx39!

Sky Dancer: Who does the LDS say God is?

I usually avoid contentious threads but because this one is titled “anti-Mormon” instead of “anti-Mormonism” and Sky Dancer's question raised the core issue, I have much to say.

My objective is to explicate why I believe anti-Mormonism will always exist and why it is so often wrongfully received as anti-Mormon.

The following passage, as aMorePerfectUnion brought to the foreground on another thread, illustrates the kinds of differences between Christians which are to be expected, understood and tolerated.

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. – Romans 14:1-3

And the following passage reveals the kind of difference which must not be helped in any way by Christians.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. - 2 John 1:10-11

For instance, if a person says to you “I am Christian” but then you discover that his doctrine of Who Christ IS is that Christ is a giant turtle, you must not help him in any way to proliferate that anti-Christ belief. Christ is God, Creator not creature. To say that Christ is a creature (e.g. a turtle) is to deny Him.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

Romans 14 and 2 John 1 are not an either/or – they are both Truth. A Christian must not be a stumbling-block and he must also not deny Christ even indirectly.

As another example, Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet but their belief is that His life began either in Mary’s womb or when He was physically born. To them Christ is a creature, not God the Creator and therefore we Christians must not help Muslims in any way to proliferate that anti-Christ message.

And that brings me to the LDS beliefs, which are more subtle, sometimes shrouded in secrecy and the subject of this thread.

Because LDS rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and sees the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as separate beings – it seemed to me at first that it was like Islam, as if Jesus’ life began in Mary’s womb. But upon closer inspection, it is apparent that the belief also sees the Father as having a beginning, albeit a spiritual realm beginning for each of Them.

In other words, it is apparent that under LDS doctrine, each are “a“ God in an infinite stream of spiritual identities having been born of prior Gods in a parallel spiritual realm, enfleshed and then, certain conditions having been met, raised to Godhood albeit with incorruptible flesh and bone.

In that doctrine, whereas Christ can be seen as Creator of this universe, He is Himself a creature in a spiritual reality. His Father likewise is a creature of a prior Father-God (and so on) about which prior generations there are no LDS revelations that I have yet seen.

And so under the LDS theology as I understand it, Christ is neither “the” God nor “the” Creator – and neither is God the Father. The LDS God is a creature albeit He may also be Creator of a subset of "all that there is."

Moreover, the LDS considers itself Christian, indeed “the” restored Christianity and yet the doctrine will continue to be dismissed at the root for the very same reason, i.e. it denies Christ is God the Creator. Even if all other differences could be laid aside, that one would not be: i.e. Who Christ IS.

The rejection is harsh of course – and no doubt could be seen as bigotry or even be taken personally, i.e. anti-Mormon v anti-Mormonism. And it is no doubt particularly hurtful when one considers all the good deeds of the LDS members and the kind fellowship offered by the LDS and our agreement on political, moral, social and ideological issues.

Nevertheless, it is what it is. The eternal penalty for denying Christ is even more harsh.

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. – Matthew 10:32-33

And there is a penalty in the here and now that applies to one who, upon realizing that God is the Creator, chooses to worship a creature instead (Romans 1:20-25)

The stakes couldn't be higher. And it is not personal. It’s about the doctrine.

God is not made in the image of man. And so, Christians will always inquire as Sky Dancer did above and as Christ does in the following passage, What think ye of Christ? and respond accordingly.

Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. - Matthew 22:42

Truth is in God's Name, I AM.

By their fruit ye shall know them!

Matt. 7: 16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The opposition MO is to divide and conqueror.

Man needs to listen to the Lord and search the scriptures this is where truth lies and the Holy Spirit will bear witness to all that is of our Lord.

John 5: 39
39 ¶ Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17: 11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen!

Thanks for that post - as I mentioned I’m anti-Mormon theology, not anti-Mormon ... great people so sadly misinformed ....

Alamo-Girl,
Right on. Excellent post.

I know no mormon I hate. None. Mormonism, the heretical teaching, I oppose just as God has commanded all Christians to oppose false teachings.

Big difference.

Very elegant yet to the point. Thank you.

Excellent post, AG! Your post are always so well versed and a blessing to all.

Bookmark this post.