Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Stourme; reaganaut
That's too bad. I have seen some pretty amazing miracles by way of the priesthood.

Any related to Jannes and Jambres? Documentation over fluff please.

And now we come to the greatest heresy that satan has ever perpetrated on the human race. No. You are not saved.

Oh, let me run and get some popcorn real quick

Matthew 10:22 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Ah yes, the common tactic of pulling a verse out of context and waiving it around. Context Matt 10 - Jesus comissioning the 12 to go out. If you were applying this to all then you better remember not to bring a coat with you and leave your purse at home. Sorry to see that your knowledge of the Bible is so poor

In the Saviors own words, you have to endure to the end in faith. Then you SHALL be saved.
Proclaiming yourself saved is blasphemy. It is supreme arrogance.
You have not endured to the end, therefore you can not be saved at this time.

Then you better be prepared to hear the Savior's words stormy -

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:47: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."

John 10:27-28: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."

No future tense used here at all. Why stormy? Where do you think the term gospel in the bible came from - good news of salvation. But then you are thinking like a mormon and mormonism requires you to obtain perfection in this life before God's grace can be effective, doesn't it. You cannot know in this life as a mormon if you paid your debt in full.
“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.…” —Moroni 10:32
“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.…Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” —Alma 11:37

The Christian has the promise of God that we are saved NOW. Why not take a look at the rest of the bible Storm

Romans 10:9-11, 13: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.(Note that there is no reference to waiting until the 'end') For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. …For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved… (Notice past tense - 'are') For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”

2 Corinthians 5:17: "Therefore if any man is in Christ, He is a new creature, old things are passed away; behold all things are become new."

You are unable to pay the mormon debt of your own works
Isaiah 64:6: "For we are all as an unclean thing; and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rages..."

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Romans 11:6: "And if by grace [unmerited favor or kindness], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified [declared righteous] by faith without the deeds of the law."

I'm guaranteed to have at least a five minute(or so) audience with the Savior. Now whether or not He allows me to stay, that's entirely up to Him. I very much hope so. But as of now, as the scripture correctly points out, I haven't endured to the end yet.

And where is 5 minutes guaranteed to be found in the bible storm? You are correct in one point - you don't know if you will have salvation even after you endured to the end.

“Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? …Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.” — Alma 5:27-28

It is impossible to live the perfect, sinless life and God will not accept your filthy rags of pride to merit Celestial glory. There is only one way and that requires you to layaside the false teachings of mormonism and accept the truth found in the Bible and Jesus.

233 posted on 03/26/2009 11:10:46 AM PDT by Godzilla (If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 231 | View Replies ]


To: Godzilla

Amen!


234 posted on 03/26/2009 12:03:11 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies ]

To: Godzilla
[Godzilla rudely proclaims] Any related to Jannes and Jambres? Documentation over fluff please.
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
[Godzilla calls the kettle black] Ah yes, the common tactic of pulling a verse out of context and waiving it around.
[Godzilla]Context Matt 10 -
Jesus comissioning the 12 to go out. If you were applying this to all then you better remember not to bring a coat with you and leave your purse at home.
A prime example of the Evangelical Wash Cycle(tm). Throw that scripture in the wash cycle put it on extra spin and not even the original author would recognize it.
[Godzilla incorrectly states]The Christian has the promise of God that we are saved NOW.
If anyone were to believe your interpretation, Jesus in Matt 10, should never have had to say "but he that endureth to the end shall be saved".

According to you it was a moot point because, according to you, they were already saved.

But as the Lord so often does, He teaches a principle to a few that applies to everyone.

According to your version Judas was saved the moment he accepted Jesus as the Son of God. And as a result, is at this moment enjoying eternal life. Regardless if he betrayed Jesus or not. Because according to you current choices don't matter, Judas was saved the moment he became a Christian.

However if you apply my reasoning, Judas was picked to be an apostle by Jesus from among His followers. However, Judas failed to "endure to the end" as the Savior taught was necessary for eternal life and will face his actions at the judgment.

Your spin cycle version simply doesn't make since.
[Godzilla witlessly proclaimed] Sorry to see that your knowledge of the Bible is so poor
I epic fail at being an evangelical.

[Stourme correctly states]
In the Saviors own words, you have to endure to the end in faith. Then you SHALL be saved. Proclaiming yourself saved is blasphemy. It is supreme arrogance. You have not endured to the end, therefore you can not be saved at this time.
[Godzilla lists several scriptures then says] No future tense used here at all.
This is a very bad strawman. And a truly horrific use of logic.

It assumes that in every conversation the Lord has, He has to use a redundant set of instructions with ever sentence. For example, if I ask someone to go to the kitchen and make me a sandwich, do I have to also instruct them to turn on the light, open the fridge, how to make the sandwich, close the fridge, and turn off the light every single subsequent time?

[Godzilla wrongfully states] You cannot know in this life as a mormon if you paid your debt in full.
You are quite wrong.

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ.…” —Moroni 10:32

[Stourme makes a humorous reference to the judgement]
I'm guaranteed to have at least a five minute(or so) audience with the Savior.
[Which goes right over Godzilla's head]
And where is 5 minutes guaranteed to be found in the bible storm?
Faith in Jesus Christ is only the first step towards eternal life.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 10:22
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Faith in Christ, following His commandments, and being faithful to the end of your life are the requirements of eternal life.
237 posted on 03/26/2009 4:53:14 PM PDT by Stourme
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies ]

To: Godzilla

Amen.


246 posted on 03/26/2009 6:05:53 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson