Posted on 03/15/2009 3:08:57 PM PDT by Salvation
Something cannot be slightly off in the realm of God. That’s what creates situations where abortion, euthanasia, contraception, divorce, and other human judgments fail, and we have the medical/juridical/societal horror we have today.
A book can contain 99% of truth, but if it fails in the 1% of critical doctrine, it fails completely.
Denying the cross is complete failure.
**Something cannot be slightly off in the realm of God.**
So true.
Christ tells us to pick up our cross and follow him.
“A book can contain 99% of truth, but if it fails in the 1% of critical doctrine, it fails completely.”
Let me say this as clearly as possible.
What a load of sanctimonious crap.
Sincerely
Will Wallace
Only God knows until he tells us...And He has told many of us...
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
God already pre judged...it's a done deal...
And if you can claim Joh 5:24, you're in the same boat...As much as you don't want to, you may have to miss purgatory...
“Let me say this as clearly as possible.
What a load of sanctimonious crap.”
By their fruits you will know them.
I recognize the Holy Spirit speaking to me, didn’t happen at all while reading that book. It was an OK storyline, but it is fiction. I was alarmed that the level of true spirituality is so lacking in our society, that so many found this book to be helpful. Perhaps we are all on different journeys and this speaks to some, it didn’t speak at all to me.
>> Why would an OT era Greek word be any different than a NT Greek word??? <<
No reason. It’s just that when the New Testament authors referred to wisdom, they tended to mean wisdom in general, not a direct manifestation of the Holy Spirit, although sometimes they do. I could’ve just said “biblical,” rather than “Old Testament.”
>> My OT was written in Hebrew... <<
Something tells me you ordinarily use the English version. I’m only referring to translations. But since the NT citations of the OT are written in Greek, the Greek version is relevant.
>> However, in the NT Greek, wisdom comes from the Greek word Sophia but Sophia doesn’t seem to mean Holy Spirit...It means, ‘wisdom’...And can be secular or spiritual wisdom... <<
I’m going to avoid making an absolute statement, but in general when the bible refers to wisdom (except when citing the spoken words of people), it refers to divine wisdom, since all true wisdom is divine. On certain occasions I can think of, it refers to people referring to worldly wisdom, or it contrasts worldly wisdom with divine wisdom.
>> The written word of God may be a ‘notion’ to you, but to many of us it is the Final Authority on All matters of Faith and Practice...And the word of God DOES NOT limit the power and widsom of the Holy Spirit to the teachers in the churches... <<
Oh, knock off the straw man argunents. I never said anything of the sort you’re attributing to me. And in fact I specifically went waaaaay out of my way to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit does work in the ways Protestants insist it exclusively works in.
Unfortunately, the average believer (Christian, Catholic, whatever), doesn't have a clue as to what the Bible DOES say because they spend no time there, or "read it once." Fiction like this tends to get taken to heart because there is plenty of room to write there.
For people who actually know their Bible, books like this can be interesting because they can be read with a critical eye. For the Biblically illiterate, they can be dangerous (ignorance on top of illiteracy). Just try to hold an intelligent theological conversation with the ones who gush over the Di Vinci Code.
You’re certainly not suggesting that if the Holy Spirit didn’t speak to you through the book that it is uninspired are you?
Chuck Colson (the author of the article) tells of seeing a truck with the acronym G.O.D. (for guaranteed overnight delivery) when he was searching for answers during watergate. You can’t really mean that if you don’t get the message he got looking at that truck that the Holy Spirit cannot indwell those three simple letters at just the right moment for just the right person, can you?
In fact, if Colson would have remembered his own story,I doubt he would have written with quite the judgmental certainty that he did about The Shack.
Personally I’m alarmed at the high level of religiosity that causes people to reject any tool that doesn’t work for them, personally. Six billion people- there just might be more than one effective approach for the Holy spirit to employ.
What percentage of doctrinal accuracy would you ascribe to G.O.D. on the side of a truck.
Perhaps we’re on the SAME journey, and this speaks to some even though it didn’t speak to you. I hope we are- I’m on the journey to be transformed into the image of Christ, toward perfection. You?
Will
good luck with that journey, I will pray for you......
“good luck with that journey, I will pray for you......”
Luck doesn’t interest me, but the prayers do.
Sounds like you’re headed someplace else perhaps...where exactly would that be?
Will
now you are insulting, watch out...Lucifer’s big sin, ie pride.....it sneaks up on you unawares...
.....read post 3, as a Catholic woman I, also, find that book lacking merit. I have read many of the books she names, and they are truly worth my effort.
I am showing proper discernment in advising Catholic women to avoid the book, which was my starting point on this thread......read it if you wish, but there are real spiritual books to read. the Bible for starters.......
no pride at all.
just grace.
no insult intended
just a question of where you’re headed- from your response you didn’t seem to share the destination that the Bible (for starters) tells me I should have in my sights.
BTW- I don’t agree with all the theology in the shack either- but its still a tool that the Holy Spirit used in my life. follow your conscience in how you handle the book- but let others do the same.
will
“I’m on the journey to be transformed into the image of Christ, toward perfection.”
And Satan dogs our heels all day every day trying to lead us astray. That is one reason we need the Church.
One must have not merely a conscience, but a properly formed conscience, and that is developed not through one’s own intellectual prowess, but through proper catechism.
I don’t know if it’s heretical, but it certainly sounds mis-guided. I have heard of it, but instinctively stayed away from it.
To me, there is nothing like the Bible. It is truly the Living Word that jumps off the page and into my heart and soul.
My observations are rooted in what I see around me in the dilution and seduction of the larger ‘Christian’ culture. ‘Christian’ bookstores abound with bad theology, secular self-help books and down right bad philosophy designed to tickle people that do not seem to desire the only tested, true and Scriptural path to enlightenment - loss of self and sacrifice.
That said, what I have learned about ‘The Shack’ I have learned from those around me. Almost without exception, the folks that claim to find great insight or help from this book have been people who, by in large, generally shun the elemental ethic of sacrifice and denial called for in Scripture for our basic walk. This departure in the lives of most advocates (so far) stands as an alarming criticism on its own. I have discussed the book several times now with others and have come away with no other conclusions than those I hold here.
To your credit, those in the ‘pro’ camp all hold to the same basic view that you have presented - allegorical illustration of greater truth. Knowing several who have read the book and hold the views of Colson, myself and others on this post, we ask: Why - what is so profound that we do not find this already in Christ alone? Clearly, some of the imagery chosen in the book and some of the words presented do, indeed, undermine and blur sound doctrine. For understanding and enlightenment, we have already been clearly presented with the true source of all revelation - if we ask and seek.
For all of these reasons, and many more, I prefer to choose the real thing.
That was Joseph Girzone...here’s his site http://www.randomhouse.com/features/girzone/
Of course, Scripture is sufficient and there is nothing we need that we we do not find in Christ. Having said that, sometimes a vivid metaphor can intensify our understanding of things we find in Scripture.
For example, the Narnia Chronicles (focusing on The Last Battle, for example) do not contain new revelation about heaven or anything else for that matter but The Last Battle made heaven seem real to me. I's a matter of focused intense metaphor, I think.
In the case of The Shack, Young deals with how to understand God's love in the face of intense suffering and disappointment. I don't think I fit into the category of "people who, by in large, generally shun the elemental ethic of sacrifice and denial called for in Scripture for our basic walk" and the author doesn't either.
Here are two new shows added today, on that radio ministry that I told you about before. I would listen to them both, as they are related...
March 14, 2009 - Hour 1
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2009_03_14A.mp3
Eric Barger from “Take a Stand!” ministry joins Jan to talk about the signs you can look for to see if your church is caving to “Emergent” ways. What is the Emergent Church? Who are it’s leaders? What outrageous things are they saying? And why are these leaders called “evangelicals”? Since this is the latest fad in the “new way of doing church,” you need to be aware of it as it may march in the front door of yours. http://www.ericbarger.com
March 14, 2009 - Hour 2
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2009_03_14B.mp3
Eric Barger and Jan respond to those who say you can find God in “The Shack.” While this book and forthcoming film minister to those who are hurting, feelings must trump doctrine as the doctrine in the book is seriously flawed. Nonetheless, the book made the number one position on most best-sellers’ lists in 2008 and remains in 2009. Sermons and Bible studies are based around the book. The book is both hailed and condemned by many Christian leaders.
—
Jan Markell’s weekly radio program and ministry, interviewing many people from many areas which impact all Christians, in their everyday lives...
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/
[archive of all radio programs in the last four years...]
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