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To: ChicagoHebrew
This is just going to be too much fun, especially since you come here calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot.

All Jews have very similar DNA (regardless of denomination - Orthodox, Reform etc.), except those who've intermarried in recent generations.

See Where it says:
The Cohen hypothesis was first tested by Prof. Karl Skorecki and collaborators from Haifa, Israel, in 1997. In their study, "Y chromosomes of Jewish priests," published in the journal Nature,[2] they found that the Kohanim appeared to share a different probability distribution compared to the rest of the Jewish population for the two Y-chromosome markers they tested (YAP and DYS 19); and that furthermore the probabilities appeared to be shared by both Sephardi and Ashkenazi Cohens, pointing to a common Cohen population origin before the Jewish diaspora under the Roman empire.
In case you just don't understand, Geneticists disagree with you.

The Native Americans aren't "lost tribes" of Israel.

A rather strong claim to make just on your reputation and no supporting evidence.

Genetically, they are east Asian.

That is interesting, I have read studies that place them in Siberia, Asia, Rome, the Netherlands, actually, I am trying to think of a genome I haven't heard touted.

So how exactly did you determine that they all came from east Asia, and how did they get here?

Again, the lack of evidence supporting your assertion is well staggering in it's completeness (IE, you present nothing, and claim inescapable conclusions based on that)

They have nothing in common with any peoples from the Middle East, including Jews. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

Yeah well, do you know who Keith Crandall is? Keith is a population geneticist, in fact, he is one of the "guys" who proved the African tribe that claimed to be descended from the Jews were in fact related.

He was asked to look into the "Book of Mormon disproved by DNA" claims being made by anti Mormons. He decided to look into it because people were quoting his work and it might affect his credibility to have his name associated with shoddy work. He was not a member of the Church at that time. After performing an in depth analysis of both the Book of Mormon, and actual genetic studies he performed himself. Keith concluded that DNA did not disprove the book of Mormon, in fact there was Strong evidence fro the Book of Mormon in the DNA he studied from Mayan descendants. Keith was so impressed that he later joined the church and now heads up "The Crandall Lab" for BYU. So let's see, who are we to believe, a professor with many papers, awards who actually was one of the pioneers of population genetics or... Say what was your name again?

In fact, there are no "lost tribes" of Israel.

That's really funny, since one of my ancestors was left behind by the group as they traveled north (her diary was preserved because she married royalty, my mom bought a copy translated from the origional Hebrew), but hey you say they don't exist, and with your track record on this post so far, who could doubt you?

Assyrian records indicate that only 27,000 people were exiled.

Do you have a link for this tidbit of information? I'm not doubting you, just wondered if you had any backup what so ever, if not maybe I could help you find some.

Most of the population was not exiled and assimilated into Judah when Judah reconquered the land of the Northern Kingdom during the reign of Josiah.

Funny, that's not what the Bible says, where is your source? Oh yeah, you don't need one, why don't you use some of mine, this one says:
How many Israelites went into dispersion? McClintock & Strong's Encyclopaedia gives us the number of Israelites at the time of the captivity: "With regard to population... In 1 Chronicles ch.21 vv.5-6, the numbers (of fighting men) are stated at 1,100,000 (Israel) and 470,000 (Judah) respectively, with the intimation that Levi and Benjamin were not included... According to the general laws observable in such cases, these numbers may be said to represent an aggregate population of from five and a half to six millions..., it may be safely reckoned that the population subject to each king was about four times the number of the fighting men in his dominions." (5) Six million Israelites went out of the land of Palestine into captivity! Out of this large number, how many ever returned? The Bible itself provides us an answer to that question. In the book of Ezra ch.2 vv.1,64-65 we read: "Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity,... The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore. Beside their servants and their maids, of whom there were seven thousand three hundred thirty and seven: and there were among them two hundred singing men and singing women."

The returning captives constituted a combined total of only 49,897 persons, or less than 8/10 of one percent of those dispersed! The remainder, nearly six million in 762BC, are still lost to recorded history.

Solid Biblical evidence therefore reveals that over 99% of God's chosen people were removed out of the land of Palestine in ancient times and thereafter lost to history. How could six million people become lost?
That was just the first page from a Google, I got almost 3 million hits, I'd be willing to wager a large percentage disagree with you, but I guess they are idiots too...

Many of the rest became the Samaritans.

The Samaritans were the descendants of the tribes of Israel who intermarried with those who were not Abraham's descendant's which is why the Jews looked on them as half breeds and not "real" Jews. Out of curiosity, where do you get this stuff?

Most Samaritans were killed over the succeeding centuries by the Jews, Romans, Byzantines and Arabs.

Actually, most people die over the succeeding centuries... how is really not important.

Most of the remainder assimilated, and are one of bases for today's Palestinian population. Have you ever met a Palestinian? They would be very upset to find out that they are descendants of the tribes of Israel, since they say they are descendants of Ishmael (the other son of Abraham). In fact the reason no one has ever "settled" the dispute int eh middle east boils down to that both sides agree that Abraham left Israel to his son along with the priesthood. The Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims claim to descend from Ishmael (the chosen son) while the Jews claim to descend from Issac (the chosen son) and the only "proof" is who is living on the land. IMHO, war there will never "end" until one side wipes out the other, or God comes down to settle the dispute himself.

A small number (about 600) still exist.

Source? I saw way more than 600 When I was over there in 2000...

The 27,000 exiles from the Northern Kingdom form the basis for the Jewish communities in northern Iran, Kurdistan and Bukhara (central Asia), all of whom have traditions of being from so-called "lost tribes." Some of the rest intermingled with the Babylonian diaspora, and others just assimilated.

I would really love to see some sources on this, My brother in law who runs tours over in the middle east for the church should get some of this information, he says they all claim to descend from Ishmael, but then, he's probably an idiot too, huh?

JFTR, I posted some videos earlier, I'll re-post them here, so you can watch them if you want to, they are by idiot professionals in the field of population genetics.

part 1 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
part 2 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
Part 3 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA

Book of Mormon and DNA evidence

Then, there is my posting on "Does DNA from Indians prove anything about the Book of Mormon?"

And since you seem to have chosen a side in what is supposed to be a Caucus forum, please look at: Book of Mormon, being confirmed?

Calling people "idiots is never good form, and posting "stuff" that is "out of the mainstream" without any backup is just asking to be mocked. I do not care if you are a Hebrew in Chicago, or even of Jewish descent, Jews thought the Idea of Africans who were descended from them was preposterous too.

Instead of Mocking you, I'll just post a funny video that illustrates how people look discussing other people's religions on these forums sometimes, this one is from cheers: Why can't Mormons send flowers?

You have a great day and don't hurt yourself trying to reply, I'm gonna go for a walk...
28 posted on 02/15/2009 2:13:36 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser; ChicagoHebrew
Dang, it stripped my link, here is the first link again: Where it says
29 posted on 02/15/2009 2:17:52 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Do you have any idea how your posts come across, dripping with condescension and ridicule? Do you really presume that is a positive for mormonism?
30 posted on 02/15/2009 2:36:41 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: DelphiUser

So how exactly did you determine that they all came from east Asia, and how did they get here?
_____________________________________________

Yes, the Native Americans are descended from Asian people who came over the “land bridge” from Russia to Alaska...

Even now you can walk across the ise for just 50 miles from Russia to Alaska...

It use to be all DIRT...

Next assinine comment ????


32 posted on 02/15/2009 3:41:47 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: DelphiUser
In case you just don't understand, Geneticists disagree with you.

No, you just proved that you don't understand genetics. That study showed that Jewish priests, regardless of denomination (Orthodox, Sephardic, Reform etc.) tend to share the same y-chromosome. In case you don't understand, that supports my point. Other studies, such as Hammer's, showed that all Jews, regardless of where they are from (except for Ethiopians) share genetic markers and have similar y-chromosome distribution frequencies. In short, an Iraqi Jew has more in common genetically with a Polish Jew than either has with Polish or Iraqi gentiles.

A rather strong claim to make just on your reputation and no supporting evidence. Sure, how about every single study real scientists (not LDS lackeys) have done? They show East Asian, partially Siberian origins for Native Americans. There is no haplogroup or junk DNA similarity with Middle Eastern groups.

That's really funny, since one of my ancestors was left behind by the group as they traveled north (her diary was preserved because she married royalty, my mom bought a copy translated from the origional Hebrew), but hey you say they don't exist, and with your track record on this post so far, who could doubt you?

I'd like to see that "diary." If it existed, it would be 2700 years old. Not likely.

Do you have a link for this tidbit of information? I'm not doubting you, just wondered if you had any backup what so ever, if not maybe I could help you find some.

We have Assyrian cuneiform records. 27,290 people were exiled. That's it. Google it. You could probably find a picture or two of the actual cuneiform.

You have some "source" saying 6 million (based on some backhanded calculations, based on the Bible). Mazel tov. Those sources are wrong. Assyrian cuneiform says 27,290 people went into the Assyrian exile (the subsequent Babylonian Captivity was much larger). The Assyrians kept excellent records. Those records are supported by the Bible itself -- it notes that part of Israel found sanctuary in Judah and celebrated Passover under Hezekiah, and more found santuary during the reign of Josiah. That wouldn't have been possible if every man, woman and child was deported. But it fits in perfectly with what Assyrian records tell us: the upper classes and royalty were exiled, the common people were left on the land.

The Samaritans were the descendants of the tribes of Israel who intermarried with those who were not Abraham's descendant's which is why the Jews looked on them as half breeds and not "real" Jews. Out of curiosity, where do you get this stuff?

No, that's just what the Bible says. That part of the Bible is a political polemic, reflecting the hatred between Jews and Samaritans (it also says that the Samaritans are idol worshippers, which is false). The Samaritans themselves say that they descend from the common people who weren't exiled by the Assyrians. Genetics has showed that the Samaritans are right -- they are indistinguishable from Jews, at least on the male side. Google it. And yes, there are only 600 Samaritans left. Most live in Holon, a few are still in Nablus.

I would really love to see some sources on this, My brother in law who runs tours over in the middle east for the church should get some of this information, he says they all claim to descend from Ishmael, but then, he's probably an idiot too, huh?

You are saying that the Bukharan, northern Persian, and Kurdish JEWS think they descend from Ishmael?? You are wrong, very wrong. And I don't care what your brother in law says. I have known many Jews from Bukhara, northern Iran and Kurdistan. Most have longstanding traditions of being from the so-called lost tribes. Hell, just ask them. The Bukharan Jews in particular are quite proud of it.

35 posted on 02/15/2009 6:12:31 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew (Hell exists, it is real. It's a quiet green meadow populated entirely by Arab goat herders.)
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