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"God Became Man So That Man Might Become A God." (Ecumentical)
Joy Peace Hope ^ | St. Athanasius

Posted on 02/14/2009 9:43:20 AM PST by restornu

"God Became Man So That Man Might Become A God." St. Athanasius

... when the intellect has been perfected, it unites wholly with God and is illumined by divine light, and the most hidden mysteries are revealed to it. Then it truly learns where wisdom and power lie... While it is still fighting against the passions it cannot as yet enjoy these things... But once the battle is over and it is found worthy of spiritual gifts, then it becomes wholly luminous, powerfully energized by grace and rooted in the contemplation of spiritual realities. A person in whom this happens is not attached to the things of this world but has passed from death to life." St. Thalassios, "On Love, Self-control and Life in accordance with the Intellect" Philokalia (Vol. 2)", p. 355)

'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god." St. Simeon the New Theologian (Practical and Theological Precepts no. 94, Writings from the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart; Faber and Faber pgs. 118-199)


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: lds; mormon
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To: restornu
Thanks for the post. This will be my one and only contribution to this thread, TTFN.

Unfortunately for the critics, a review of Christian history illustrates that this doctrine was and is a common belief of many Christians; modern critics are perhaps the exception, rather than the rule.

Irenaeus (ca. AD 115-202)

Saint Irenaeus, who may justly be called the first Biblical theologian among the ancient Christians, was a disciple of the great Polycarp, who was a direct disciple of John the Revelator.[4] Irenaeus is not a heretic or unorthodox in traditional Christian circles, yet he shares a belief in theosis:

While man gradually advances and mounts towards perfection; that is, he approaches the eternal. The eternal is perfect; and this is God. Man has first to come into being, then to progress, and by progressing come to manhood, and having reached manhood to increase, and thus increasing to persevere, and persevering to be glorified, and thus see his Lord. [5]

Like the LDS, Irenaeus did not believe that this belief in any way displaced God, Christ, or the Holy Ghost:

there is none other called God by the Scriptures except the Father of all, and the Son, and those who possess the adoption....Since, therefore, this is sure and stedfast, that no other God or Lord was announced by the Spirit, except Him who, as God, rules over all, together with His Word, and those who receive the Spirit of adoption.[6]

Yet, Irenaeus—whom it is absurd to exclude from the ranks of orthodox Christians—believed in theosis in terms which agree with LDS thinking on the matter:

We were not made gods at our beginning, but first we were made men, then, in the end, gods.[7]

Also:

How then will any be a god, if he has not first been made a man? How can any be perfect when he has only lately been made man? How immortal, if he has not in his mortal nature obeyed his maker? For one's duty is first to observe the discipline of man and thereafter to share in the glory of God.[8]

And:

Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, of his boundless love, became what we are that he might make us what he himself is.” [9]

And:

But of what gods [does he speak]? [Of those] to whom He says, "I have said, Ye are gods, and all sons of the Most High." To those, no doubt, who have received the grace of the "adoption, by which we cry, Abba Father."” [10]

And, Irenaeus considers the doctrine clearly Biblical, just as the LDS do:

For he who holds, without pride and boasting, the true glory (opinion) regarding created things and the Creator, who is the Almighty God of all, and who has granted existence to all; [such an one, ] continuing in His love and subjection, and giving of thanks, shall also receive from Him the greater glory of promotion, looking forward to the time when he shall become like Him who died for him, for He, too, "was made in the likeness of sinful flesh," to condemn sin, and to cast it, as now a condemned thing, away beyond the flesh, but that He might call man forth into His own likeness, assigning him as [His own] imitator to God, and imposing on him His Father's law, in order that he may see God, and granting him power to receive the Father; [being] the Word of God who dwelt in man, and became the Son of man, that He might accustom man to receive God, and God to dwell in man, according to the good pleasure of the Father.[11]

Further quotes from Irenaeus available here.

Said one Protestant theologian of Irenaeus:

Participation in God was carried so far by Irenaeus as to amount to deification. 'We were not made gods in the beginning,' he says, 'but at first men, then at length gods.' This is not to be understood as mere rhetorical exaggeration on Irenaeus' part. He meant the statement to be taken literally.[12]

Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215)

Clement, an early Christian leader in Alexandria, also taught the doctrine of deification:

yea, I say, the Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.[13]

And:

...if one knows himself, he will know God, and knowing God will become like God...His is beauty, true beauty, for it is God, and that man becomes god, since God wills it. So Heraclitus was right when he said, "Men are gods, and gods are men."[14]
Those who have been perfected are given their reward and their honors. They have done with their purification, they have done with the rest of their service, though it be a holy service, with the holy; now they become pure in heart, and because of their close intimacy with the Lord there awaits them a restoration to eternal contemplation; and they have received the title of "gods" since they are destined to be enthroned with the other "gods" who are ranked next below the savior.[15]

Origen (ca. AD 185-251)

And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other gods beside Him, of whom God is the God, as it is written, "The God of gods, the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth." It was by the offices of the first-born that they became gods, for He drew from God in generous measure that they should be made gods, and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true God, then, is "The God," and those who are formed after Him are gods, images, as it were, of Him the prototype. [16]
The Father, then, is proclaimed as the one true God; but besides the true God are many who become gods by participating in God. [17]

Origen also defined what it means to "participate" in something:

Every one who participates in anything, is unquestionably of one essence and nature with him who is partaker of the same thing. [18]

Justin Martyr (d. ca. AD 163)

Justin the Martyr said in 150 A.D. that he wishes

to prove to you that the Holy Ghost reproaches men because they were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons... in the beginning men were made like God, free from suffering and death, and that they are thus deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest...[19]

Also,

[By Psalm 82] it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming “gods,” and even of having power to become sons of the Highest.[20]

Hippolytus (AD 170-236)

Now in all these acts He offered up, as the first-fruits, His own manhood, in order that thou, when thou art in tribulation, mayest not be disheartened, but, confessing thyself to be a man (of like nature with the Redeemer,) mayest dwell in expectation of also receiving what the Father has granted unto this Son...The Deity (by condescension) does not diminish anything of the dignity of His divine perfection having made you even God unto his glory. [21]

Athanasius

In 347, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria and participant in the council of Nicea, said:

the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods....just as the Lord, putting on the body, became a man, so also we men are both deified through His flesh, and henceforth inherit everlasting life...[we are] sons and gods by reason of the word in us.[22]
For as Christ died and was exalted as man, so, as man, is He said to take what, as God, He ever had, that even such a grant of grace might reach to us. For the Word was not impaired in receiving a body, that He should seek to receive a grace, but rather He deified that which He put on, and more than that, gave it graciously to the race of man. [23]

He also states that Christ "became man that we might be made divine." [24]

Augustine (AD 354-430)

Augustine, considered one of the greatest Christian Fathers, said

but He himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. For He has given them power to become the sons of God, (John 1:12). If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.[25]

Jerome (AD 340-420)

Jerome also described the deification of believers as an act of grace, which matches the LDS understanding precisely:

“I said 'you are gods, all of you sons of the most high.’" let Eunomius hear this, let Arius, who say that the son of God is son in the same way we are. That we are gods is not so by nature, but by grace. “but to as many as receive Him he gave power to becoming sons of God” I made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods. We are called gods and sons!...[Christ said] "all of you sons of the Most High," it is not possible to be the son of the Most High, unless He Himself is the Most High. I said that all of you would be exalted as I am exalted.[26]

Jerome goes on to say that we should

give thanks to the God of gods. The prophet is referring to those gods of whom it is written: I said ‘you are gods’ and again ‘god arises in the divine assembly’ they who cease to be mere men, abandon the ways of vice an are become perfect, are gods and the sons of the most high...[27]

Modern Christian exegesis

The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology describes "deification" thusly:

Deification (Greek Theosis) is for orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is ‘made in the image and likeness of God’...it is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become God by grace. This doctrine is based on many passages of both O.T. and N.T. (Ps. 82: (81) .6; 2_Pet. 1:4), and it is essentially the teaching both of St. Paul, though he tends to use the language of filial adoption (Rom. 8:9-17, Gal. 4:5-7) and the fourth gospel (John 17:21-23).[28]

Joseph Fitzmyer wrote:

The language of 2 Peter is taken up by St. Irenaeus, in his famous phrase, ‘if the Word has been made man, it is so that men may be made gods; (adv. Haer v, pref.), And becomes the standard in Greek theology. In the fourth century St. Athanasius repeats Irenaeus almost word for word, and in the fifth century St. Cyril of Alexandria says that we shall become sons ‘by participation’ (Greek methexis). Deification is the central idea in the spirituality of St. Maximus the confessor, for whom the doctrine is corollary of the incarnation: ‘deification, briefly, is the encompassing and fulfillment of all times and ages’,...and St. Symeon the new theologian at the end of the tenth century writes, ‘he who is God by nature converses with those whom he has made gods by grace, as a friend converses with his friends, face to face...’
Finally, it should be noted that deification does not mean absorption into God, since the deified creature remains itself and distinct. It is the whole human being, body and soul, who is transfigured in the spirit into the likeness of the divine nature, and deification is the goal of every Christian.[29]

According to Christian scholar G.L. Prestige, the ancient Christians “taught that the destiny of man was to become like God, and even to become deified.”[30]

William R. Inge, Archbishop of Canterbury, wrote:

"God became man, that we might become God" was a commonplace of doctrinal theology at least until the time of Augustine, and that "deification holds a very large place in the writings of the fathers...We find it in Irenaeus as well as in Clement, in Athanasius as well in Gregory of Nysee. St. Augustine was no more afraid of deificari in Latin than Origen of apotheosis in Greek...To modern ears the word deification sounds not only strange but arrogant and shocking.[31]

Yet, these "arrogant and shocking" doctrines were clearly held by early Christians!

This view of the early Christians' doctrines is not unique to the Latter-day Saints. Many modern Christian writers have recognized the same doctrines. If the critics do not wish to embrace these ancient doctrines, that is their privilege, but they cannot logically claim that such doctrines are not "Christian." One might fairly ask why modern Christians do not believe that which the ancient Christians insisted upon?

http://en.fairmormon.org/Deification_of_man

61 posted on 02/15/2009 7:36:09 AM PST by sevenbak (We wrestle against principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, wickedness in high places.- Eph. 6:12)
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To: fproy2222; colorcountry; SENTINEL; P-Marlowe
The question was what Colofornian believed what happened “Before in the beginning”, not what you think we believe.

Colorcountry was born mormon, temple-sealed. She KNOWS what beliefs were/are taught. You can speak for what YOU believe, however. You certainly do not speak for what other mormons/exmormons KNOW of the beliefs.

Before in the beginning?

Lets see, ....there was a council of the gods in heaven. They all got together to decide about the forming of the earth. One of the gods had a plan to send spirits to earth to take upon themselves body form.

That's a great idea, said the gods, what shall these spirit children DO while they are on earth?

One of the spirit children who was also a god, his name was Lucifer, thought that it would be a great idea if all the spirit children were forced to love the God and worship him without any choice.

But another of the spirit children who was a god, his name was Jesus thought a better option would be to send the children to earth to be tempted so that they would have a CHOICE about whether or not to worship the God.

This caused a war in heaven where some of the spirit children sided with the angels and Jesus - while some of the spirit children sided with the demons and Lucifer. The council of the gods chose Jesus’ plan - and for their rebellion Lucifer, and the demons were cast out.

Those of us who were born mormon were especially valiant in the spirit world. We were rewarded by being born into noble Mormon families.

The spirit children who refused to take sides in the war in Heaven were cursed by having to be born with black skin on earth. But never fear....the book of Mormon promises that if they are obedient, they will become white and delightsome like the rest of us.

THAT, my friends is what I was taught in Mormon Sunday School. If you don't believe my wild tale, I have excerpts from my Patriarchal blessing to prove it.

37 posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:42:19 PM by colorcountry

62 posted on 02/15/2009 8:30:41 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Illinois http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ready-for-reform-15-feb15,0,6270951.story)
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To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry; SENTINEL; P-Marlowe; Colofornian
I am looking for what non-LDS-Christians say happened before “In the beginning”, not what ya’ll say I believe.

I have asked this question off and on over the months, and I only get snide remarks or mis-directed answers like your's.

Just what do the Non-Mormon-Christians believe happened before “In the beginning”?

63 posted on 02/15/2009 8:47:32 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: greyfoxx39

Sounds about as inviting as the mooselimb moon god story. Kinda has a similar ring to it actually. Like some crafty crazy cult leader made it all up.


64 posted on 02/15/2009 8:48:24 AM PST by gost2
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To: fproy2222

If God did not reveal it in scripture then it is not for us to know at this time or any time not in God’s will.

Why is such idle speculation important to you?


65 posted on 02/15/2009 8:51:25 AM PST by gost2
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To: fproy2222
I am looking for what non-LDS-Christians say happened before “In the beginning”, not what ya’ll say I believe.

I have asked this question off and on over the months, and I only get snide remarks or mis-directed answers like your's.

What about my comment, "Colorcountry was born mormon, temple-sealed. She KNOWS what beliefs were/are taught. You can speak for what YOU believe, however. You certainly do not speak for what other mormons/exmormons KNOW of the beliefs." are you describing as "snide or mis-directed"?

Your comment, "what you think we believe" is directed at CC, who knows what the beliefs are. Perhaps, in the name of ecumenism, you would like to rephrase that comment to her?

66 posted on 02/15/2009 8:54:57 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Illinois http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ready-for-reform-15-feb15,0,6270951.story)
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To: shineon

no , you and much of christianity have that all screwed up as per the apostasy that is under way now. God is the only God and Jesus did nothing of his own will. He said even He was not good, but only His father in heaven was. God would not call himself not good, sorry, you guys are just WRONG and need to come back to your commonsense. You are unwittingly trying to confuse people just as you have been confused.


67 posted on 02/15/2009 8:55:40 AM PST by fabian
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To: gost2

Why is such idle speculation important to you?

+++++++
Thanks for your reply.

We have scripture that speaks of our time with Heavenly Father before this world was created, and it is often ridiculed by those who do not believe in God leading His children today through his Prophet.


68 posted on 02/15/2009 9:04:53 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: gost2
Sounds about as inviting as the mooselimb moon god story. Kinda has a similar ring to it actually.

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

 
 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ” 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

69 posted on 02/15/2009 9:10:01 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Illinois http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ready-for-reform-15-feb15,0,6270951.story)
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To: greyfoxx39

No, your history does not make your call for ecumenism look valid.


70 posted on 02/15/2009 9:12:51 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: fproy2222

Your ‘scripture’ ain’t Scripture.


71 posted on 02/15/2009 9:16:40 AM PST by gost2
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To: gost2

If God did not reveal it in scripture then it is not for us to know at this time or any time not in God’s will.

+++++++++++++++++=

You seem to believe that God will still reveal new information to us.

Is that so?


72 posted on 02/15/2009 9:25:25 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: fproy2222

Oh you betcha. Soon’s I get up there I got dozens of questions for God.

(kinda think I won’t have to ask though)


73 posted on 02/15/2009 9:43:25 AM PST by gost2
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To: gost2

Can your conclusions about God be wrong?


74 posted on 02/15/2009 9:48:42 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: fabian

He did not say He Was not good. He said “There is none good but God.”
Read it one more time.


75 posted on 02/15/2009 10:10:56 AM PST by shineon
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To: fproy2222

Just what do the Non-Mormon-Christians believe happened before “In the beginning”?
_________________________________________________

I’m not a mormon and I am also a Christian...

I believe I have answered this one for you several times in the past...

As have others in these threads...

As we know from the Bible,

“In the beginning, God...” and “In the beginning was the Word...”

But I repeat myself...

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3

Now a question that you and some others have be asked repeatedly...

What was untrue about Presbyterianism ???

And a new question that deals with the history of the mormon believers and not their beliefs...

Please tell me what you know about Brigham Young and the handcart companies...


76 posted on 02/15/2009 10:19:11 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: fproy2222

I will.. sorry for delay, I am divorced and have my kids this weekend, I will get you good references tomorrow.


77 posted on 02/15/2009 10:21:45 AM PST by Ron Jeremy (sonic)
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To: fproy2222

It would change my mind about the specific charge that I made, but it would not get me to convert to mormonism. Now, do you accept that IF there are translation errors from KJV that made it into the BOM, that Joseph Smith has serious credibility issues?


78 posted on 02/15/2009 10:22:38 AM PST by Ron Jeremy (sonic)
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To: Tennessee Nana
I believe I have answered this one for you several times in the past...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

your answer stops at “In the beginning” and says nothing about BEFORE “in the beginning”

79 posted on 02/15/2009 10:36:56 AM PST by fproy2222
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To: Ron Jeremy

thank you


80 posted on 02/15/2009 10:37:17 AM PST by fproy2222
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