Anti-Mormon: The Mormon N-Word (Open)

Mormonism Research Ministry ^ | Bill McKeever

[Tennessee Nana]

Nor would faithful members tent to be successful, prosperous, well-educated people respected in their communities.
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That’s right they’re not...

mormons demand 10% of the members gross income...

Name me 10% of the members that came to the morg dirt poor and now are “successful, prosperous, well-educated people respected in their communities. “ ...

You can keep it down to those worth $10 Million

And to make it easy on yourself...Honduras comes to mind...

Got that list of 1,300,000 members ready yet ?????

[Godzilla]

same same

Tsk tsk F, are you unable to formulate your question, are you sure you know what faith is?

[Colofornian]

When did Christ teach His Gospel through confrontation?

You keep repeating this. You said this on a recent thread. Not only do you ignore how the apostle Paul and Apollos dealt with religious folks in Acts 17, Acts 18, Acts 19, but you ignore Jesus Himself. (I don't blame you, I guess...Mormons tend to totally ignore John 8 because it undermines their theology that all people are children of Heavenly Father).

Jesus proclaimed the gospel to the Pharisaical Jews, the religious folks of the day, ...if you believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins...As he spake these words, many believed on him...Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free...36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Before Abraham was, I am (John 8:24, 30, 32, 36, 58)

Now, notice, I pulled parts of five verses interspersed from a message that was about 47 verses. Now ya wanna guess what flattering "niceties" Jesus said in many of those verses in chapter 8 of John I didn't cite?

Here, read at least the bold-faced portions of verses 15-55 o John 8:

15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
19Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
21Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55Yet ye have not known him;

I counted at least 20 negative references that Jesus gave these Pharisaical Jews in John 8.

At the heart of the Gospel is Christ’s love and confrontation and argument are incompatible with that love.

With hardened religious folks, Jesus, the apostle Paul, and Apollos took entirely different tactics. How can you not comprehend that? Has your Book of Mormon reading, Pearl of Great Price reading, Doctrine & Covenants reading, two-a-year General Conference reading & DVDs, Ensign reading, LDS.org reading, FAIR/FARMS reading, etc. bogged you down so that you skipped Acts 17, Acts 18, and Acts 19?

That people should be angry with those who do not agree with them is not consistent with Christ’s teachings as most Christians know them.

Why do you assume that "disagreement" automatically = "anger?"

I know some people grew up in homes where their parents often disagreed, and angrily so, and some of those folks assume -- and then tend to steer clear -- of disagreements for that reason. On what grounds do you insert "anger" when emotions are oft' hard to read in these kinds of posts?

[Tennessee Nana]

We have the fruit on the tree, and it makes you mad.
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I dont know what type of fruit or tree you are talking about so I’ll just teach you a bit...

Now when the Bible mentions “fruit” that doesnt mean the type of fruit and nuts you would find in the mormon cult...

The fruit mentioned in the Bible is the type associated with the God of the Bible...

mormons have nothing to do with the God of the Bible..

Now if you are partaking of the tree that you think you might have, Adam and Eve got tossed out of Eden for doing that...

If you think you have the OTHER tree...well you dont...

As for getting mad...whatever for ????

Nah, I was too busy laughing at first...

But now...well, I just think you are rather sad...

And need to get saved...

Now dont bother thanking me...

My pleasure...

Jesus told me to preach the Gospel...

And teach the nations...

It’s my belief He wanted us to include lost-as-a-goose-in-a-snowstorm mormons also...

[Tennessee Nana]

Thanks for your # 263...

I always appreciate your posts

:)

[restornu]

None of these retorts are making sense from the mainstream....

[Colofornian]

At no time did Jesus teach to bash those you disagree with, but in their mind this is how they justify their behavior.

Of course "bash" is your word meant to replace what more often goes on similar to the days of Paul and Apollos...You say "bash"...
...We say...
vigorous disagreement/dialog,
refutation,
disputation (Acts 17:17; Acts 19:8),
reasoning (Acts 18:4),
bold speaking (Acts 18:26; Acts 19:8),
persuading (Acts 18:4, 13; Acts 19:8),
teaching diligently to less-than-hospitable people (Acts 18:25)

May I encourage all of you, LDS & non-LDS alike, to take to heart what Paul would do on REGULAR basis -- go to where the religious folks hang out and do -- or receive -- the above!

Certainly, we all -- me included -- need reminders to watch our tone to some degree. But continue to be consistent like Paul & Apollos..."show up" to boldly converse like they did.

And those who represent the 60,000-Mormon missionary force has no cause to complain...they put their young folks on our front porches. Just consider these posts your Mormon neighbor porches -- as well the porches where those LDS missionaries are going to show up. (Some lurkers on these threads will one day open the door to an LDS missionary, and you are equipping them as well)

I think LDS are worth thousands and millions of conversations because God loves them so dearly. And I won't apologize for taking the time to speak the truth to them...because that's yet another way of loving them.

[restornu]

Your post was thoughtful Colofornian

Thank you!

[Elsie]

 

None of these retorts are making sense from the mainstream....

 

NONE of these SCRIPTURES made ANY sense to MORMONism's Founder or later leaders:

 

 

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

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TRUTH IGNORED

 

 

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Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

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[Elsie]

Of course "bash" is your word meant to replace what more often goes on similar to the days of Paul and Apollos...You say "bash"...

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-13
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

vigorous disagreement/dialog, refutation, disputation (Acts 17:17; Acts 19:8)	NIV Acts 17:17  So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. NIV Acts 19:8  Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.
reasoning (Acts 18:4)	NIV Acts 18:4  Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
bold speaking (Acts 18:26; Acts 19:8)	NIV Acts 18:26   He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.  NIV Acts 19:8  Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.
persuading (Acts 18:4, 13; Acts 19:8)	NIV Acts 18:4  Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.   NIV Acts 19:8  Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.
teaching diligently to less-than-hospitable people (Acts 18:25)	NIV Acts 18:25   He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor  and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John.

 

VERSUS

 

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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[Elsie]

Even Bob uses the Mormon equivalent of the N-word...

[svcw]

Amen.

[greyfoxx39]

If the church was anything like your portray, it would neither be growing nor prosperous. Nor would faithful members tent to be successful, prosperous, well-educated people respected in their communities. We have the fruit on the tree, and it makes you mad.

What a revealing post! I don't see ANYTHING in your description of "successful" that wouldn't apply to earthly wealth!

Equating a church's success to "prosperity" of the members instead of service to His children is very reminiscent of the drive to attain wealth and earthly power by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and it is obviously, in your mind, still the yardstick to measure by. That's why organizations such as the Salvation Army put the LDS to shame in the field of serving their fellow man.

The vow of consecration taken in a temple oath in LDS temples Is oh, so in tune with this:

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion

Where, oh where, in either your description of success, or in this vow, is mention of Christian goals? Mormonism is all about earthly attainment and especially all about building up the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in numbers and wealth rather than about glorifying God and His Son, Jesus Christ.

And, oh, BTW, I know MANY poor and working-class mormons...they just don't happen to be among the church leaders..those callings seem to be linked to "prosperity".

[greyfoxx39]

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Certainly, we all -- me included -- need reminders to watch our tone to some degree. 

But continue to be consistent like Paul & Apollos..."show up" to boldly converse like they did. 

Nice post, colofornian. However, there are times when "a soft answer DOESN'T turn away wrath" in these discussions.

Some of us feel moved to answer the call echoing down from history to be willing to do battle for Jesus.

ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

1.	Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, 
	with the cross of Jesus going on before. 
	Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; 
	forward into battle see his banners go! 
Refrain: 
	Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, 
	with the cross of Jesus going on before. 

2.	At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee; 
	on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory! 
	Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise; 
	brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise. 
	(Refrain) 

3.	Like a mighty army moves the church of God; 
	brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. 
	We are not divided, all one body we, 
	one in hope and doctrine, one in charity. 
	(Refrain) 

4.	Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane, 
	but the church of Jesus constant will remain.
	Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail; 
	we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail. 
	(Refrain) 

5.	Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng, 
	blend with ours your voices in the triumph song. 

STAND UP, STAND UP FOR JESUS

1.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	ye soldiers of the cross;
	lift high his royal banner, 
	it must not suffer loss.
	From victory unto victory 
	his army shall he lead,
	till every foe is vanquished, 
	and Christ is Lord indeed.

2.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	the trumpet call obey;
	forth to the mighty conflict, 
	in this his glorious day.
	Ye that are brave now serve him 
	against unnumbered foes;
	let courage rise with danger, 
	and strength to strength oppose.

3.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	stand in his strength alone;
	the arm of flesh will fail you, 
	ye dare not trust your own.
	Put on the gospel armor, 
	each piece put on with prayer;
	where duty calls or danger, 
	be never wanting there.

4.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	the strife will not be long;
	this day the noise of battle, 
	the next the victor's song.
	To those who vanquish evil 
	a crown of life shall be;
	they with the King of Glory 
	shall reign eternally.

There aren't any "soldiers of the cross mentions in mormon hymnbooks, 
however look at the last verse of this favorite mormon hymn:
 
PRAISE TO THE MAN

 

1844 version

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus:

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus

 

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus

 

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Chorus

 

You can see, every day, that some FReepers feel called upon to "Wake up the world for the conflict of justice." for Joseph Smith....I'm awaiting the posting of the lyrics of a musical mormon call to do battle for Jesus.

 

 

[ejonesie22]

Interesting, it is as if the LDS has totally missed Christ's message. If you measure your fruit by earthly means, what is the point of heaven.

Another thought also.

John Travolta is smart and successful, he pilots his own commercial jets and such, and is a Scientologist.

Carl Sagan was a successful and brilliant scientist, he was an atheist.

I have a very good friend who is incredibly intelligent and successful in the IT field. He is Muslim.

Intelligence and wealth are no guarantees of ones understanding of fundamental truths...

[fproy2222]

Teach me your understanding of faith.

[colorcountry]

People who judge righteousness upon worldly wealth and power or human attributes receive their rewards here on earth.

Only those who recognize righteousness through Christ will receive their rewards through him.

The first are a group of Pharisaical religionists.

The second group are Christian.

[Godzilla]

Teach me your understanding of faith.

What are you willing to abandon?

[Colofornian]

What are you willing to abandon?

Ah! (What a wise, apt to the foundational core question that ALL of us needs to address! None of us should be too quick to answer this question without a bit of soul searching.)

When you ask this question I think of the disciples who left their fishing nets and followed Jesus. I also think of Jesus' beckoning -- yet sober -- words in Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

What stands between us and truly following/relating to Jesus?

LDS apostle-elder Bruce R. McConkie told BYU students at a devotional in the early 1980s that they should not seek a special relationship with Jesus Christ.

So what church structures, what church leaders, what social standings, what family member ties, are keeping us from abandoning everything to follow Jesus?