***How do Scriptures save people? They don’t.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Do you know what the word of God is??? I’ll give you a hint...It is NOT your church...And it is not your church tradition...Still don’t get it???
The word of God is the scriptures...***
And I thought that the Reformed were all muddled up.
The Scriptures save no one. The Reformed have it that it doesn’t take Scriptures to save one if one is of the Reformed elect, so don’t wallow in the same sty.
The saving Grace of God exists without Scripture. How much Scripture did Sts. Peter and Paul bring with them to Rome? How much Scripture did St. Thomas bring to India? Exactly none. The verses that you post indicate that faith comes by hearing; of NT scripture, the Apostles had none or almost none. The Gospels weren’t even written until after the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul.
Jesus created His Church; I think that it galls you, but Scripture itself bows to the Church.
***Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Did Jesus say to search the Catholic church??? Did Jesus say to search the Catholic tradition??? No??? He must have made a mistake, eh???***
You have definitely been hanging out with the Reformed since you left out the first of the verse (and capitalized the remnant) which indicates that you know that this excerpt does not mean what the entire verse means. Let us see what it means in context. He is debating with the Jews who want to arrest and kill him. John 5:
37
Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent.
39
You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Note the difference in the post. You said: Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
The verse says: You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Completely different meaning. Why in a forum unlike FR, I would think that you were deliberately lying, but there is no way a Freeper would lie.
***Me This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...
You Prove it wrong.
My pleasure...***
Once again, you have redirected. My original post said: ***The Bible is the product of the Church
This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...***
Prove it wrong.***
Which of course means that I am requesting proof of your original claim that the Bible is not the product of the Church. The Church is made up of all those who have the Faith of the Church, that I do not deny. But don’t redirect the question if you cannot answer it except in defeat.
***It took over 300 years to create the New Testament and ensure that this was the literature of the Church.
Oh come now...You think Jesus had to wait 300 years for you guys to figure out which scriptures Jesus said he would preserve forever??? If Jesus didn’t have it all wrapped up with the last writing of the last apostle, He ain’t much of a God, is He???***
He is the Lord of All; if you have a problem with Him, then you are free to move on.
***
For once you have it sort of right.
When it comes to scripture, I don’t think you’re the guy to tell me or anyone who is right or not right...***
The Judge of All already has told us what is right; it is the individuals who create their own churches on their LaZBoys in their living rooms with their favourite adult beverage at the ready who will find out the adherence of their actions to the commandments of Christ.
I suspect you weren't supposed to notice. I'm sure it's frustrating when someone can't find in Scripture what they want it to say.
Peter wasn't in Rome and Paul had all the Scripture Jesus gave him...
The saving Grace of God exists without Scripture.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jesus seems to think you have to hear what he had to say before you can believe on Him...
Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
And what are these things that I say??? They are SCRIPTURE, that you might be saved...
It's like they say, it's your story, tell it any way you want...
Where did you dig up this perversion of the scriptures???,Even your Catholic author of your Catholic bible, Jerome, had better sense than to write whatever it is that you posted...
But again, here's the real verse:
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Now I made this statement; This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...
And you responded with; Prove it wrong.
And I proved YOU wrong...
And you then responded with; Which of course means that I am requesting proof of your original claim that the Bible is not the product of the Church.
Like I said earlier, I'm not into your kid games...
He is the Lord of All; if you have a problem with Him, then you are free to move on.
I don't have a problem with God...It's the people and churches that corrupt and pervert the word of God that I have a problem with...
So what exactly is the faith of your church???