Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Do you know what the word of God is??? I'll give you a hint...It is NOT your church...And it is not your church tradition...Still don't get it???
The word of God is the scriptures...
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Did Jesus say to search the Catholic church??? Did Jesus say to search the Catholic tradition??? No??? He must have made a mistake, eh???
Me This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...
You Prove it wrong.
My pleasure...
Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
They were assembled with the called out assembly, the church...They were NOT the church...
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
You will notice here and most other places the apostles and elders are NOT the church
They were received of the church, AND the apostles and elders...It's not a buiding...It's not a priesthood...It's the called out assembly of believers...
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
With the whole church...
Act 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
NOT the elders, the church...The elders OF the church...
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
The apostles are told to feed the church which is the flock, NOT each other...
Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
What??? No cathedral??? The churches are in houses...
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
This one is so explanatory that you couldn't miss it with the Hubble telescope...
This is just a small sampling of the scriptures that prove you pope, cardinals, bishops and priests are NOT the church...
Where are your Gospel of Judas and your Epistle of Barnabas? Scripture was chosen by the institution of Christ. Where are your Acts of Peter and Paul? There are dozens of writings that were circulating.
When were these things written??? Who wrote them??? Does your church or anyone have the original manuscripts of these tales??? What language were they written in???
For once you have it sort of right.
When it comes to scripture, I don't think you're the guy to tell me or anyone who is right or not right...
It took over 300 years to create the New Testament and ensure that this was the literature of the Church.
Oh come now...You think Jesus had to wait 300 years for you guys to figure out which scriptures Jesus said he would preserve forever??? If Jesus didn't have it all wrapped up with the last writing of the last apostle, He ain't much of a God, is He???
***How do Scriptures save people? They don’t.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Do you know what the word of God is??? I’ll give you a hint...It is NOT your church...And it is not your church tradition...Still don’t get it???
The word of God is the scriptures...***
And I thought that the Reformed were all muddled up.
The Scriptures save no one. The Reformed have it that it doesn’t take Scriptures to save one if one is of the Reformed elect, so don’t wallow in the same sty.
The saving Grace of God exists without Scripture. How much Scripture did Sts. Peter and Paul bring with them to Rome? How much Scripture did St. Thomas bring to India? Exactly none. The verses that you post indicate that faith comes by hearing; of NT scripture, the Apostles had none or almost none. The Gospels weren’t even written until after the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul.
Jesus created His Church; I think that it galls you, but Scripture itself bows to the Church.
***Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Did Jesus say to search the Catholic church??? Did Jesus say to search the Catholic tradition??? No??? He must have made a mistake, eh???***
You have definitely been hanging out with the Reformed since you left out the first of the verse (and capitalized the remnant) which indicates that you know that this excerpt does not mean what the entire verse means. Let us see what it means in context. He is debating with the Jews who want to arrest and kill him. John 5:
37
Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent.
39
You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Note the difference in the post. You said: Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
The verse says: You search 14 the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Completely different meaning. Why in a forum unlike FR, I would think that you were deliberately lying, but there is no way a Freeper would lie.
***Me This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...
You Prove it wrong.
My pleasure...***
Once again, you have redirected. My original post said: ***The Bible is the product of the Church
This goes along with your fallacy that the church is your pope, cardinals, bishops and priests...***
Prove it wrong.***
Which of course means that I am requesting proof of your original claim that the Bible is not the product of the Church. The Church is made up of all those who have the Faith of the Church, that I do not deny. But don’t redirect the question if you cannot answer it except in defeat.
***It took over 300 years to create the New Testament and ensure that this was the literature of the Church.
Oh come now...You think Jesus had to wait 300 years for you guys to figure out which scriptures Jesus said he would preserve forever??? If Jesus didn’t have it all wrapped up with the last writing of the last apostle, He ain’t much of a God, is He???***
He is the Lord of All; if you have a problem with Him, then you are free to move on.
***
For once you have it sort of right.
When it comes to scripture, I don’t think you’re the guy to tell me or anyone who is right or not right...***
The Judge of All already has told us what is right; it is the individuals who create their own churches on their LaZBoys in their living rooms with their favourite adult beverage at the ready who will find out the adherence of their actions to the commandments of Christ.