Posted on 01/18/2009 4:19:43 AM PST by NYer
ALBANY — Cities across the greater Capital Region will bear the brunt of a massive plan to close 33 worship sites throughout the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany, Bishop Howard Hubbard announced Saturday.
Troy will be ground zero in an unprecedented consolidation the 14-county diocese is undertaking to cope with shifting demographics and a shortage of priests.
Hubbard, despite lobbying to change the outcome, decided to close six of the Collar City's dozen Catholic churches. That is more than any other city. And the list of soon-to-be-shuttered Troy churches includes St. Peter's, the state's third-oldest Catholic parish.
Elsewhere, St. Teresa of Avila and Holy Cross will close in Albany. In Cohoes, St. Bernard's, St. Joseph's and St. Rita/Sacred Heart will all shut down. And in Schenectady, St. Mary's, St. John the Baptist and Immaculate Conception also will close.
Altogether, the diocese is closing just under 20 percent of its 190 worship sites, a historic downsizing that is comparable to other consolidations in the dioceses of Buffalo, Syracuse,and Rochester.
The decisions announced Saturday culminated a 2 1/2-year planning process, known as Called to BE Church, that involved thousands of Catholics and 38 local planning groups making suggestions to the bishop.
Parishioners attending Masses on Saturday took the closings with mixed emotions: acceptance, nostalgia, disbelief, resignation, anger.
A livid Dorothy Mall lingered in her pew after the 4:30 p.m. Mass at one of Troy's doomed churches, St. Patrick's. Mall described Called to BE Church as "a farce" whose outcome was known from the start.
"The politics and the hypocrisy of this diocese leaves a lot to be desired," said Mall, 65, of Niskayuna. "This Called to BE Church did nothing but pit priest against priest, parish against parish, and parishioners against parishioners."
Hubbard has publicly rebutted the claim that he knew all along what he planned to do. On Saturday, he empathized with the "painful adjustments" the closures will require of many of the sprawling diocese's 400,000 upstate Catholics, who began to learn the fate of their parishes during Masses on Saturday and will continue to get the news in churches today.
"In fact, my own home parish of St. Patrick's in Troy will be closing — the church where I grew up, went to school, celebrated my first Mass as a priest of the diocese, and buried my parents," Hubbard said in a prepared statement.
"But we as a church must acknowledge the social and demographic changes that require change, and remember our church must adapt, just as our ancestors' church adapted to rapid changes in society throughout the 19th and 20th centuries."
Hubbard, who made the rounds of media outlets this month ahead of the plan's release, kept a low profile Saturday. He was unavailable for an interview. He did not attend any public events, said diocese spokesman Ken Goldfarb. Hubbard will celebrate Mass at 11 a.m. today in the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception.
The closure of so many neighborhood landmarks isn't just a Catholic issue. Empty churches create "a hole in our community," said Lynn Kopka, a non-Catholic who heads the Troy's Washington Park Association.
The longer they sit vacant, the more deterioration makes it hard to find other uses for buildings that make economic sense, Kopka said.
The former St. Jean's, closed under a previous bishop some 35 years ago, sits vacant in the block south of Washington Park, Kopka said. Now the diocese plans to close St. Mary's as well.
"It's one more wallop in the head for urban areas that are trying to move forward," Kopka said.
Goldfarb responded to that concern by saying nearly all vacated church buildings have found other community uses and are no longer vacant. He sent the Times Union a church-by-church list of those uses, from a shelter for homeless women to a community arts center.
Other cities beyond the Capital Region's four-county core will also lose churches, including Glens Falls in Warren County, where St. Alphonsus will close.
In Montgomery County, three Amsterdam worship sites will close: St. Casimir's, St. John the Baptist, and St. Michael's.
Some churches, like St. Francis de Sales in Troy, will close as early as next month.
The calendar for the other closings will unfold over three years.
The closures will disrupt important traditions at two Troy churches. The Latin Tridentine Mass will move from St. Peter's to St. Joseph's in Troy, Hubbard announced Saturday. And the Perpetual Adoration Chapel will go from St. Paul's to the chapel at St. Mary's Hospital, also in Troy.
The diocese described Called to BE Church as a project created to realign resources to serve the greatest number of Catholics.
With the exception of Saratoga Springs, the majority of cities in the Albany Diocese have lost between 25 and 39 percent of their population since 1960. Suburban towns have grown by 50 percent or more, according to the diocese.
In Saratoga County, only one church — in Mechanicville — will close.
Many city churches were built at a time when they served separate ethnic communities whose members walked to worship in buildings only blocks from each other. Today, the combined weekend Mass attendance is about 1,300 at six urban churches in Troy whose total seating capacity is 3,200. A single parish in Ballston Spa or Glenville gets the same attendance.
Still, some fault bishops for neglecting newer immigrant groups who don't come from traditional European Catholic countries.
For example, Pentecostal churches are pulling in large numbers of Latinos, said Peter Borre, chair of the Council of Parishes, a Boston-based advocacy group for parishes in danger of closing.
"This is a massive failure on the part of bishops serving urban areas in the Northeast," Borre said.
The Albany Diocese maintains what Goldfarb described as "a significant outreach program to the Hispanic community." It offers a Spanish language Mass in areas with substantial numbers of Spanish-speaking Catholics: Albany, Schenectady, Troy, Amsterdam Stuyvesant Falls. None of those locations will close, Goldfarb said.
Here in WV, the bishop of Wheeling simply closed an Italian Roman Catholic Church after there was some damage from mining subsidence, and kept the $1,000,000 insuance payout, for his own needs. It has been destroyed, of course. I also lament the attempt to homogenize the church. (You should see the horrible architecture at the new "award-winning" gray box of a Roman Catholic church in the next town.)
In the next town over, his predecessor closed the Polish/Slovak Catholic church for no known reason, and went so far to tramp out any sense of heritage that he forbade the Polish and Slovak ethnic associations ever to meet there in the future even after it had been closed as a church and was being used for community meetings. It is now a beautiful concert hall, used several times a year for concerts.
And who can forget the historic Croatian Catholic church on the north side of the river across from downtown Pittsburgh, the earliest such church in the country, which the bishop of Pittsburgh closed against the protests of the faithful, despite no falloff in either attendance or donations; and insisted on proposing to tear down despite its historic landmark significance being recognized by generations of Pittsburghers.
First, let me say that while I'm a former Catholic, I do feel for those who are experiencing the loss of familiar places, and of churches that are important in their family history. A couple of years ago, I drove through my old childhood neighborhood in Gary, Indiana, and I swear I could not even recognize the front of the house I used to live in. It was very disorienting to have such a bedrock piece of my memory to have seemingly vanished, so I do empathize with those seeing their churches being turned over to other uses.
That said, in addition to the deleterious changes that have taken place in the Catholic Church over the last forty-plus years (most noteworthy among them the lawsuits the RCC has had to settle) there is also the fact that many of us have left that church permanently. Some have gone to other denominations or religious traditions, and many, like me, have just abandoned the idea of organized religion altogether.
We are home, although it's not one that you would necessarily recognize as your home. We wish you all well, but we are not coming back.
Hey NYer, I re-read that old thread.
To: NYer
“The gradualist approach may turn out to have been a mistake, but I don’t think so.” (a quote from the article)
The problem with the gradualist approach is that the longer you allow bad Bishops with their bad teaching (or lack of any teaching) to inflict themselves on a diocese the less the laity even know that something is wrong in their diocese. Is this guy saying that the areas with craptastic Bishops are just unlucky, and ultimately there is nothing the Church can do for years and years until the bad Bishop kicks it or retires?
Freegards
23 posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 3:53:58 PM by Ransomed
I’m still not convinced that the Church can do nothing about bad bishops and their bad teaching/lack of teaching for 30-40 years at a clip. It has never been easier for the Church to monitor bishops than it is today. You can only run from the fear of schism so long before you’re in one anyhow.
Do you think the Vatican really did all it could do?
Freegards, thanks for all the awesome pings!
Did you mean for post #21 for NYer?
Agreed. That is what happened in several dioceses as Catholics got sucked into a constant stream of gradual liturgical changes. They questioned nothing, trusting their shepherd would not mislead them. After a while, they expected it was like this in all RC dioceses. I also fell into this trap. It wasn't until I stumbled upon this Religion Forum that I discovered otherwise. That's when I began to fight back at the parish level, calling the priest on liturgical abuses. Sadly, I was the lone voice.
Is this guy saying that the areas with craptastic Bishops are just unlucky, and ultimately there is nothing the Church can do for years and years until the bad Bishop kicks it or retires?
He is saying is that, short of the bishop introducing heretical teaching into the diocese, the bishop remains in charge. Let's take that down to the parish level. Are you familiar with the events that took place at Corpus Christi parish in Rochester NY, back in 1999? Rather than reposting it, here is a link. In this situation, the parish priest stepped over the bounds while the bishop winked. It went from dissent into sacrilege and Bishop Clark did not act until directed to do so by the Vatican. The pastor, his associates and members of the parish community were all excommunicated.
The sad collapse of an apostate church
Notice that the Vatican did not remove Bishop Clark. A similar scenario is now playing itself out in Australia where another priest has threatened to separate from Rome. I posted a thread on this earlier in the week. It falls under the Bishop's jurisdiction and he must act. The Vatican, however, keeps a watchful eye. These problem parishes are worldwide.
Do you think the Vatican really did all it could do?
I do know that the Vatican has a massive dossier on Bishops Hubbard and Clark but this is probably true for bishops in other countries as well. Perhaps the better question is what can the Vatican do to get their attention. The US bishops were all present for the Vesper Service in DC at which time Benedict XVI addressed them. Judging from the pope's address and his personal, private meeting with victims of the sex-abuse clergy from the Boston diocese, I KNOW the Vatican is doing what it must to ensure the health of the Catholic Church worldwide.
One probelm is the unwieldly size of the Latin Church. These problems don't exist in the Eastern Catholic Churches. This is probably due to several reasons: 1 - their liturgies are fixed and not open to novelties; 2 - their communities are much smaller and the bishops are chosen by their Patriarch or Metropolitan. All of the Eastern Catholic bishop selections are approved by the Vatican before announced. This is more of a courtesy than a requirement.
The Latin Church, on the other hand, is so massive that the Holy Father must rely upon nuncios to recommend candidates prior to their approval. In the case of Bishops Hubbard and Clark, Archbishop Jean Jadot was Pope Paul VI's apostolic delegate to the United States from 1973-1980 and he has no regrets about the spate of bad bishops he inflicted on the Catholics in this country.
Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.
The Archbishop just turned 99! I posted a thread on this earlier in the week. As one poster commented, the good Lord has given him time to repent.
Prior to relocating to Albany, a LI neighbor pulled me aside. He had been a seminarian in the Albany Diocese but left it when he saw what was going on back in the early 90s. He cautioned me about what to expect. At the time I thought he was exaggerating the situation. But it came at me like a locomotive once I arrived here. 5 years ago, spent from personally battling liturgical abuse in the diocese, I knelt in prayer before the Tabernacle and asked our Lord to guide me to - 'a holy priest, a reverent liturgy and a community where whatever my God-given abilities, could be of service to them'. That same day, I compiled a list of 5 RC parishes. Another freeper reminded me of the Eastern Catholic Churches, suggesting that I research these and add them to the list. Over the next several weeks, I attended Mass at a different parish in nearby Watervliet, always repeating that prayer. After several weeks, one of the Eastern churches surfaced on the list. That Sunday, I stepped into a small church in Troy and attended the Maronite Divine Liturgy for the first time. The prayers grabbed my heart! The Consecration was chanted in the words and language of our Lord - Aramaic. It was as if I had been transported through time back to the Last Supper. A thought crossed my mind: "I will help them build a new Church". (From where did this though emanate?) But when I left the church that day, I felt a sense of peace unlike anything I had ever experienced. The following Sunday, I pulled out the list and looked up the name of the next parish. It just happened to be my birthday and, as a personal gift, I decided to return to the Maronite Church. I was immediately immersed in the rhythmn of the chanted liturgy. Children waved to me as they passed - me - a total stranger! Again, an overwhelming sense of peace enveloped me but now I recognized it! "Peace be with you!", the priest says before reading the Gospel. This is the greeting of our Lord. Peace ... here it was, the answer to my prayer. It is nearly 5 years now and each Sunday I leve that church in peace. The priest is truly holy and frustrated wih the members of his congregation who don't show up for Holy Days or neglect their Sunday obligation.
Our Lord said: "Ask and you shall receive!" Now I pray that Cathoics in those parishes about to close will come to our small community and discover the beauty of the Maronite liturgy. They need us as much as we need them. Please pray for all of us!
Thank you for the post and ping! That is a very interesting statement but you have provided no rationale for the decisions. We are witnessing a similar phenomenon here in this diocese. I would truly appreciate your insight into how and why people leave the Catholic Church. Thank you again.
We had sections today on the Divine Mercy Chaplet and the Rosary, as well as discussions on other important Church Feasts. Imagine my amazement when CRADLE CATHOLICS did not know the following:
Who Saint Faustina was.
What the Mysteries of the Rosary were.
The story of the Virgin of Guadalupe.
Why you should pray the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
What the Fatima prayer is, or where it comes from.
These all were explained, and I tried to offer information in a friendly manner, but my heart sank. These were people who sincerely wanted to draw closer to the Lord, but they didn't have the tools. They simply had had poor teaching in their formative years
Four years ago I was a Methodist, and yet I knew all of these things! These ladies were happy to learn, but I am appalled! It is a disgrace that they never were taught!
THIS is what I think is wrong with the Church...the members don't know the spiritual weapons they have, nor do they know the rich history of the Church. It is so sad!
Prayers for all of you back there. When Bishop Hubbard retires, I believe many of these churches will re-open.
**It was a painful slap in the face for that community. Since then, many of those parishioners have left the Catholic Church and now attend local Evangelical Churches. No effort has been made to call them home.**
There are several evangelical programs with Lenten schedules that could be used in the existing prarishes. Then people could evangelize/reachout to those who wandered and invite them back.
And, of course, pray!
You are always welcome back. Just because a few priests or bishops made unwise decisions, doesn’t mean that the entire Catholic Church is bad.
Compare with a few bad teachers does not make the entire school district bad.
You are still a Catholic.
**THIS is what I think is wrong with the Church...the members don’t know the spiritual weapons they have, nor do they know the rich history of the Church. It is so sad! **
You are so right!
You're welcome. I only posted to indicate that those waiting for people to come flocking back to the Catholic Church should have a "plan B" backup, because I don't think it's going to happen.
In my case, after drifting around through a variety of other Christian denominations and non-Christian faith traditions, I just decided about a dozen years ago that it was all completely unreliable. I see the various religious traditions of the world fractionalizing more and more as time goes on, and have concluded that it's all because of the need to run religion as a business, or some sort of power trip. Every denomination of a similar religious tradition has built up it's own fiefdom, and consolidation with reconciliation would knock some from their privileged positions within the hierarchy.
After taking into account the sheer unreliability of ancient texts that were canonized more for political purposes than anything else, I decided that no present day religious sect could have possibly gotten even a glimmer of the truth, if it is even discernable. What seemed even crazier to me was a deity that needed me to not eat or drink certain things in order to run a universe, and who needed me to perform meaningless acts or utter certain words in order to assist in this task. I can fathom that being good to each other will make the world a better place, but ethical people do not need an ancient book of interpreted rules to do this.
That's my journey, but others have found what they seek in the teachings of other faiths. As an American, I celebrate people's ability to take their own journey any way they want to that does not violate the laws of our land.
** I see the various religious traditions of the world fractionalizing more and more as time goes on,**
That’s what is so wonderful about the Catholic Church. You can go to Mass anywhere, and even though the Mass might be in a different language and there might be a few local customs, the Mass is basically the same worldwide.
**After taking into account the sheer unreliability of ancient texts that were canonized more for political purposes than anything else, I decided that no present day religious sect could have possibly gotten even a glimmer of the truth, if it is even discernable.**
On what authority are you basing this statement? Your own judgement? A Protestant sect? Source please.
**What seemed even crazier to me was a deity that needed me to not eat or drink certain things in order to run a universe, and who needed me to perform meaningless acts or utter certain words in order to assist in this task. I can fathom that being good to each other will make the world a better place, but ethical people do not need an ancient book of interpreted rules to do this.**
What ancient book are you referring to here? What deity? God?
God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is the only deity that I know of within the Catholic Church.
Please, I did not post on this thread to get into religious arguments with people, I just wanted to express that there are not a big bunch of people out there waiting to "come home", any more than the Heaven's Gate people's spaceships were coming from the other side of the sun to pick them up.
There are countless "ancient books", and there are also many names for the deities found in their pages. You reject all of them except one, I add that one to my list. That's all.
Merely trying to point out the truth. Sorry you think it is argumentative.
A thought to ponder:
God in His infinite goodness sometimes sees fit to test our courage and love by depriving us of the things which it seems to us would be advantageous to our souls; and if He finds us earnest in their pursuit, yet humble, tranquil and resigned to do without them if He wishes us to, He will give us more blessings than we should have had in the possession of what we craved.
— St. Philip Neri
I’ll guess most of these are in black neighborhoods or those with crowds of Muslim immigrants. Why does the Church desert the poor they purport to serve, nor do we evangelize the heathens in our country?
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