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To: Iscool

You wrote:

“Sorry, it’s the same Jesus but a different gospel...”

Nope. It’s one gospel. That’s why the same things were taught to all people whether Gentile or Jew. We know that both groups were taught that Jesus was the Son of God, the Savior, who died and was resurrected and who gave grace for salvation and sanctification. Every Christian learned those things whether he was a Gentile or a Jew. One aspect or another of that Gospel may have been emphasized with one group or another, but all of it was taught to everyone willing to listen. There’s ONE Lord, ONE faith, and ONE Baptism.

“In the first gospel. there is no plan for the Curcifixion...Jesus came to the Jews as the Messiah to set up a physical Kindgom on earth...”

No. The death of Christ was part of the Gospel plan from the beginning, but Christ did not reveal it to everyone at all times for few would have understood. That’s why Paul says the crucifixion was a stumbling block for Jews while the resurrection was a stumbling block for Gentiles. They were all still taught all of the truth when the time was right for it formed ONE Gospel. When you read Luke’s account - and Luke was a follower of St. Paul don’t forget - he tells us that Mary was told that Jesus would be pierced. The crucifixion was part of the plan from the beginning. It just wasn’t revealed to everyone from the beginning.

“In the second gospel, Jesus was Crucified and Grace was given that ALL could be saved, thru faith into a Spiritual Kingdom...”

Nope. Again, all of that was part of the ONE and only Gospel. There was never more than one from Christ and there never will be.

“Not correct...Any one who choses to live under the law, is under the law...Includes Gentiles as well...”

Nope. Gentiles today realistically couldn’t live under the Mosaic Law even if they had a passing desire to because they have no experience with it and don’t see it. St. Paul - as scholars easily admit - generally was talking about the Mosaic Law. As Paul said in Romans 3:27-31:

“28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”

Notice verse 28? Observing the law is the Mosaic Law. Notice that?

“Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”

Yes, the Mosaic Law. I do not observe the Mosaic Law. I don’t worry about kosher foods for instance. I never will.

“If you are doing ANYTHING to get to Heaven, you are under the law...And if you’re under the law, that’s how you will be judged...”

We must cooperate with God to be saved. If we resist God we are damned. God does not save people against their own will. We are free to choose. This is exactly why the Apostle Paul tells us: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you” (Phil. 2:12-13). St. Paul’s comment makes no sense if we are not to cooperate with God. Protestants, when pushed into a corner, usually admit that, yes, we must cooperate with God to be saved. Do you deny that? Do you believe a man can be saved even if he lives a sinful lifewithout repentance, remorse or redress?

“Not all are saved the save way...Not all are judged the same way...”

All are saved by Christ and His grace. No one gets to heaven without Christ. All are judged by God Who knows the hearts of all men.


125 posted on 01/03/2009 7:06:02 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
“28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”

The Mosaic law is all inclusive...It is not just the ceremonial law...It includes the Moral law (10 Commandments) as well as the social law...

This is proven by multitudes of scripture including:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Of course, one of the Ten Commandments...So if you live by any one of the Ten Commandments thinking this will get you salvation, you are condemned to live by and be judged of all the Commandments...

We must cooperate with God to be saved.

Wrong...This puts you under the Mosaic law...

We are free to choose.

True...But that is not the same as cooperating with God...

This is exactly why the Apostle Paul tells us: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

You mis-interpret the verse...The verse DOES NOT SAY to work for your own salvation...It says be sure you have salvation...It says God is within you...I'm (Paul) not here to guide you so study the scripture, lead Holy lives in my absence... St. Paul’s comment makes no sense if we are not to cooperate with God. Protestants, when pushed into a corner, usually admit that, yes, we must cooperate with God to be saved. Do you deny that?

Cooperate is such a vague word, you can use it to identify most anything...But no, you don't cooperate with God...You believe in Him...You accept Him as your Saviour...

126 posted on 01/03/2009 9:20:22 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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