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To: GunRunner
It doesn't seem to occur to him either that many people do not want to live under the thumb of a celestial dictator who watches your every move.

LOL. Well that’s one way to look at it. Your opinions are just that, not fact as you seem to assert.

Nor do I think that your views are so original that they escaped the notice of the author. He addressed the views and actions of serious critics of religion. He didn't respond to people when they were just throwing mud. Nor did he throw mud.

There are some things that I regret in my life, but rather than criticize or deny the existence of the “celestial dicatator” who was aware of my actions, I think it better, though harder, to admit my actions and seek forgiveness. To me, that is facing up to reality.

If Biblical Christianity says that all non-Christians go to hell, then I wouldn't want to go to heaven anyway.

Sounds like a false dichotomy.

it's all not true anyway

You opinion again. I imagine you will continue to repeat it. Is that a chant on your part?

49 posted on 12/16/2008 1:37:34 PM PST by ChessExpert (The Dow was at 12,400 when Democrats took control of Congress. What is it today?)
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To: ChessExpert

And on top of what you say, I have one other offering.

There was a time when I seriously doubted whether there was a God. I had to find “proof.”

But even when I doubted whether there really was a God, it never once occurred to me to think that the idea of God was some kind of terrible thing. It never occurred to me to say, “Christianity is awful.” Rather, I always thought, “Christianity is beautiful - if it’s true.”

Think of it: God created us in His image with free will. When we sinned and He could not - being morally holy - have a relationship with us, He assumed a human nature, and lived a perfect life so that He could take our sin upon Himself and save us. God loved us so much He personally identified with our plight, and came to save us from our worst instincts so that He could offer us a beautiful eternal fellowship in heaven.

And we have people say, “What an ugly God that would be!”

And, yes, I came to find what I needed to believe. And I never doubt now. I have everything I need to see and hear my God.

I just can’t understand the mindset of someone who so twists the idea of a Creator God that he concludes, “What a terrible thing it would be if there really were a God who created us in His image and loved us and has an eternal destiny for our lives.”

It’s almost like seeing rotting meat as beautiful and fresh flowers as ugly. It’s incomprehensible to me.


55 posted on 12/16/2008 1:58:46 PM PST by Michael Eden
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To: ChessExpert
Well that’s one way to look at it. Your opinions are just that, not fact as you seem to assert.

I would agree that antitheism, which holds that its better that we do not live under the watchful eye of a "creator", is more of a belief or opinion. Yes, not wanting to live under a god doesn't have any bearing on whether or not he exists. I wasn't asserting it as fact, but it is a reasonable retort to his view that everyone for some reason should want to live under a paedagogical supreme being.

You opinion again. I imagine you will continue to repeat it. Is that a chant on your part?

Let me put it this way.

Let's say I look at the universe and find that I don't see any evidence of a supreme being or any supernatural entities or occurances, and choose to live based on that observation.

You on the other hand look at the universe and not only see a supreme being, but you make other assumptions:

-you know who he is
-you know what he wrote
-you know who his son is

-you know what he wants from you....

In fact, you might say that you know him personally and speak to him on a regular basis.

I believe the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence of these things rather than asking me to prove a negative. After all, why should I be required to prove your god non-existent, when I don't spend an equal amount of time on proving Zeus, Vishnu, the aforementioned Ahura Mazda, and the flying spaghetti monster non-existent as well.

I hate to quote Sagan because I know he gets a reaction around here, but "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

56 posted on 12/16/2008 1:59:10 PM PST by GunRunner
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