Talking with my family about Rev. Joel Hunter (Vanity)

AmericanGirlRising seeking advice from fellow FReepers | 12/15/08 | Me - sources included in body of thread

[AmericanGirlRising]

I realize I'm a relatively new FReeper, but I consulted the thread on vanity postings prior to posting this. If I've posted this incorrectly, please advise.

[AmericanGirlRising]

Last night I finished a book "Foundations of Betrayal: How the Liberal Super-Rich Undermine America" by Phil Kent. In the final chapters of the book, the author discusses Rev. Joel Hunter from Northland Church in Orlando, FL. Hunter was the guy in 2006 that almost took over the leadership of the Christian Coalition.

This was very surprising to me. My family (all but me and my husband) attend Hunter's church in Orlando. When he did not move forward with his leadership position with the Christian Coalition, my family just blew it off that Hunter just sought to spend more time with the church.

Since reading Kent's book, the reasons behind Hunter's separation from the Christian Coalition stem from Hunter's belief in global warming. Dismayed, I began to research Hunter and the incident and his beliefs on Gorebul warming. What I found has sickened me, since it's obvious that Joel Hunter not only is close to the leftist one-world initiative of global warming, but also with Barack Obama. Some examples of my findings:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1857140,00.html?imw=Y

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-11-28-christian-coalition_x.htm

http://christiansandclimate.org/learn/call-to-action/signatories/

After Hunter led the prayer at the DNC, my father became very suspicious of Hunter. Just this morning, my mother has asked that I don't discuss Hunter with him or share what I've discovered.

I'm asking for prayer on this. I need direction on how to handle this with my family. I'm very close to them and they enjoy going to this church.

I'm also open to any advice from FReepers who've had similar experiences.

[dware]

Live by example, and be persistent. Do not hesitate to talk TRUTH, especially with those you love.

I have been in a slightly similar situation with my wife. She is not political in any sense. She doesn't care about politics and, quite frankly, appeared to grow tired of my relentless preaching of the truth throughout the last election cycle. Nonetheless, she went out and voted against Obamamessiah in November. Now, she is beginning to ask questions and seek out more information about a lot of different political situations.

[El Cid]

Just this morning, my mother has asked that I don't discuss Hunter with him or share what I've discovered.

Acts 4:19-20 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Politics do not matter with respect to our Worship of God. God and Christ are our focus - not man. That said, there is no reason to 'shield' anyone from information. Christianity is a 'thinking' religion: "...think on these things"; "I am persuaded"; "... but continue thou in the things which thou hast learned...;"...seek"; "...search the scriptures"; etc.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this Joel Hunter having fallen for the Global Warming line - as long as that is not the focus of his sermons and messages. There is a danger, though, that the Global Warming hysteria is a short step from leading someone into Gaia, 'Mother Earth', worship. Which is blatant idolatry.
I'm not sure how to take Mr. Hunter's prayer at the DNC Convention. We should certainly pray for our enemies - and always try to lead everyone to Christ. IF he was at the Convention praying for the 'demons to be gone from this house' -- then it was probably a good prayer. I don't know what he said - but your father is justified in being concerned IF Mr. Hunter was praying for blessings on an organization that celebrates abortion and homosexuality.
I don't know this Joel Hunter -- but you should share your information and concerns. IF this pastor is truly pointing people towards Christ - and he has some confused politics (and he doesn't push it on people) - I think he's fine. But remember, we have also been warned of impostors in the pulpit - and we should always be on the lookout.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Acts 20:29-30 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Cornithians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

IF Mr. Hunter is not consistently and continually pointing HIS flock towards Christ -- then flee...

[Matchett-PI]

You’ll find my posts on the Northland site here (under Matchett):

http://www.creationicare.net/2007/05/why_i_care_raym.html

http://www.creationicare.net/2007/05/why_i_care_sara.html

And here (under Walker):
http://www.creationicare.net/2007/05/why_do_i_care.html

[AmericanGirlRising]

I had no idea Northland runs that blog. When reading the comments, I was shocked that this church would let people post with such disdain and unhinged intolerance towards those that don’t buy the global warming scandal.

[Grammy]

Ask your mother one simple question.

Does she want to go to church as a “social” event, or does she actually want to meet and worship the Creator of the universe.

The answer will dictate your actions. If she just wants a nice group of friends to get together with, then go ahead and ignore what the pastor is doing and let her be. The church is probably a nicer group of people than the folks at the biker bar down the street.

If she wants to meet with the Maker of heaven and earth, then continue to talk to her and your dad about the church and what you have found out. Much of environmentalism is based on two things. The first is worship of “mother earth”. Obviously that is wrong, and not in any way compatible with Christianity. The other leg of environmentalism is “lack”.... not enough water, not enough gas or oil, not enough food for everybody... etc. God has not put us on this earth without enough for us to not only survive, but thrive! Now I am not *for* dirty air and water as so many on the left claim, but I am also not for refusing to take a bath when I want to (my sister takes really really quick showers, water off while she lathers, etc).

There is lots of nonsense that a leftist “church” may get into, and in my opinion much of it is in direct opposition to the Word of God. But, as I said, if she just wants a social event.... oh well.

[AmericanGirlRising]

Thank you for the scripture passages and prayer.

This is going to be a very touchy situation.

[Matchett-PI]

The naive (?-I hope) Joel Hunter has foolishly aligned himself with other “Reverends” that I can PROVE are “Liars for Jesus” and scientists that are “Liars for Science” :

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2047988/posts?page=9#9
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2047988/posts?page=8#8

*

And re the “Compassion” issues Hunter talks about as his reason for aligning himself with leftists:

I’m copying you on one of my posts in the live Rick Warren thread on FR the night he had Obama and McCain on:

WARREN said: “You’ve seen the face of compassionate conservatism and the face of compassionate liberalism. And what we have in common is compassion.”

Joel Hunter would uncritically agree with that statement.

And it does sound good.

Until you look a little closer.

Consider this (excerpted) exchange which makes my point:

Wednesday, June 25, 2008

Anonymous ximeze said...
Christopher has already said he puts Compassion at the head of the table.
6/25/2008 03:23:00 PM

Gagdad Bob (aka Robert W.Godwin, Ph.D a clinical psychologist) said:
Placing compassion over truth is the very essence of the soul pathology of liberalism. It pretty much explains all its failures (at least when we aren’t just dealing with pure subversive malevolence and rebellion).
6/25/2008 03:43:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
Compassion over truth is particularly catastrophic in the macro realm. Obviously there are times that it is appropriate in the micro arena, but even there, for example, a psychotherapist who has nothing to offer you but compassion is basically robbing you.
6/25/2008 03:49:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
To put it another way, I know of countless psychologists who are compassionate imbeciles, as they pretty much dominate the profession.
6/25/2008 03:51:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
... it is very much possible to be compassionate in the absence of truth, unless you define compassion out of existence. For example, I have no doubt that Obama is a compassionate man. But he is also an idiot, which is my primary concern as a citizen.
6/25/2008 04:20:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
Dennis Prager was making that very point the other day, that so-called compassion is almost always an ego driven need to be liked and a fear of rejection. It’s weakness masquerading as compassion. Give me the truth of Ronald Reagan any day over the “compassion” of a Jimmy Carter. The former helped liberate millions, while the latter cozies up to any tyrant with his self-righteous compassion.
Male compassion generally comes down to identifying what is of value and kicking the ass of those who threaten it. Female compassion is another mater.
6/25/2008 04:27:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
This is why I dreaded the term “compassionate conservatism,” being that conservatism is intrinsically compassionate. It is liberal policies that end in cruelty ­ uneducated children, the destruction of the black family, mismanaged cities, increased crime, etc., etc.
6/25/2008 04:32:00 PM

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...
And um, what everyone else already said.
Give me a kick in the ass compassion anyday over the milquetoast enabling compassion of idiots.
6/25/2008 04:43:00 PM

River Cocytus said...
Hunh. It is interesting that one who thinks of ignorance as the chief problem and not sin finds compassion of the highest importance. One would think he would find -truth- of the greatest importance, since that’s the cure for ignorance.
I prefer Truth-seeking perhaps in part because of my disposition, but sin, which is ‘to miss the mark’ is certainly man’s problem. And according to the old stories, it’s man’s desire to get stuff that he ain’t ready for yet that messes him up.
Sometimes we’ve gotta go blind, get a limp or lose a finger before we’re ready, yaknow, yaknow.
Besides, if the Truth is a person - what could be more important than him? Mercy comes from truth, and thus compassion from truth.
6/25/2008 06:00:00 PM

Gagdad Bob said...
Marxism is a form of communism. The latter has always existed, since man’s “socialism” is ontologically and developmentally prior to his individualism.
6/26/2008 06:22:00 AM

Gagdad Bob said...
Liberalism is government by those who cannot govern themselves.
6/26/2008 08:58:00 AM

Gagdad Bob aka Robert W.Godwin, Ph.D a clinical psychologist whose interdisciplinary work has focused on the relationship between contemporary psychoanalysis, chaos theory, and quantum physics

Source: The comments section on his thread here:
The Absolute Science of the Center and the Darwinist Religion of the Periphery

96 posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:10:23 PM by Matchett-PI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2062984/posts?page=96#96

[Matchett-PI]

One of Joel Hunter’s good “global warming” friends has resigned.

Google news search: “Cizik resigns” Result:
http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=cizik%20resigns

Cizik resigns
World Magazine, NC - 2 hours ago
Longtime evangelical leader in Washington Richard Cizik resigned from the National Association of Evangelicals Wednesday night, Christianity Today reports, ...
Cizik resigns as top Evangelical lobbyist (Rod) Beliefnet.com
Richard Cizik Resigns from the National Association of Evangelicals ChristianityToday.com
Richard Cizik Resigns from National Association of Evangelicals Christian News Wire (press release)
The Associated Press - Dallas Morning News
all 161 news articles »
Top evangelical resigns after backing gay unions
Herald News Daily, ND - 3 hours ago
Richard Cizik (SIGH-zik) quit Thursday as the group‘s representative in Washington. Cizik had already made enemies of some evangelical leaders because of ...[]YHOO

[AmericanGirlRising]

I read that Cizik resigned after he told NPR that he not only voted for Obama, but backs gay unions and global warming. After some reading on Cizik, it appears he has been pushing gay unions, global warming, and socialist economic principles to members of the NAE.

This is like a can of worms.... industrial-sized, deep, messy can of worms.

[Salvation]

I’m forgetting which Gospel it is, but I think it is in Matthew.

Jesus discusses with the apostles along these lines:
If your neighbor has wronged you — go and talk with your neighbor and try to settle it.
If he doesn’t listen, then take someone with you and talk with your neighbor.
Third, still no listening, talk to the Church about the matter.

Seems like there is a fourth step — but I’m not bringing it to mind right now.

Have you followed these steps? Might be good. The Gospel basically says that we MUST stand up for the truth.

[AmericanGirlRising]

The thing is, I’ve learned he is pushing global warming on the church flock.

http://www.creationicare.net is a blog on his church’s website.

[El Cid]

I know its tough -- but I'd recommend counseling your parents to seek another church. One that focuses on Jesus Christ - LORD and Saviour. Yes we should be good stewards of the land the Lord has given us -- but if this fellow, Joel Hunter, has links on his church's website for Global Warming malarkey, he's going beyond dabbling in pop culture into the realm of pushing Gaia pantheism on his flock. Or if not there yet, he's getting close.

Find a church that consistently preaches Christ, and points people towards Him.
We are strangers in this land who are passing through on our way to eternity. Our duty and privilege is to point others to the Saviour. We might have jobs, and other 'hobbies' that occupy some of our time -- but a church should never link this other stuff on their website...

Preaching is a matter of taste -- but I like this gentleman, he's very good (I mention this in case your parents are starved from hearing the Word preached):
Alan Cairns Sermons

God Bless.

[AmericanGirlRising]

Does she want to go to church as a “social” event, or does she actually want to meet and worship the Creator of the universe.

Going to Northland isn't social for her except that she and my Dad go with my sister and her family. My sister and brother-in-law found this church many years ago. None of them have friends there ~ they're sort of an isolated group. My Mom likes going to church with my sister and her kids and she likes the music. Since my parents get a lot more Biblical teaching than Northland. They're both avid readers of Christian books and the Bible. They're also big fans of others on TV like Michael Youssef and John Hagee. My sister and her husband only go to church once a week and to Northland.

[AmericanGirlRising]

Thanks for the Bible-based advice.

I’ve decided to take my case to my Mom in all of the detail. I’m going to let her know that I’m also going to share it with my Dad, but she needs to know why I’m doing it:

1 - It’s my responsibility to stand up for the truth. It’s hers too.

2 - My niece and nephew are young and their walk with God is critical at their age. They need more Bible - less in-church entertainment and social commentary they’re too young to understand.

3 - If they still choose to go to Northland, they need to know what they’re being served.

4 - Whether they choose to keep going there or not, how about we do a weekly family Bible study over web cam. There are six adults in our family and two near-adult children. Considering the times we’re living in and the importance of us reaching towards God, this is something we can do together as a family. I’ll organize it and we can all decide on the first Bible study book to use.

[Grammy]

This sounds like a reasonable response. I fear that this pastor has become part of the “sloppy agape” crowd. They do lots of “feel good” stuff, and pat themselves on the back for how wonderful they are.... they are tolerant and kind and careful of the environment and don’t offend anyone. Unfortunately, the Truth (read Jesus) is offensive.

Many times “social activism” masquerades as “Christianity”. I remember several people I knew in school who decided to become pastors rather than social workers, because there were more jobs. They never really fit the criteria of being a pastor (ie: belief in Jesus and the Bible) but the job fit the work they wanted to do. God bless you.

[Matchett-PI]

bttt