What Are Icons? A Practical Guide [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

CUF.org ^ | not given | Mike Sullivan

[Salvation]

This is one area that I wish Roman Catholics could grow more in. Our parish just had an icon done of St. Edward by Brother Claude Lane, OSB at Mount Angel. You can find a display of his icons on their Mount Angel Abbey website.

[Salvation]

These posts are fabulous. Thanks everyone!

[Salvation]

St. John of Damascus, St. John Damascene, Doctor of Icons and Images

[kosta50]

Thank you Salvation.

Mary, I think tis is what you were looking for recently.

[Kolokotronis]

Tomorrow is the Feast of +Nicholas the Wonderworker. Just last evening in our livingroom over vodka by the pellet stove my wife and I and our koumbaroi were talking about his life. We will have a vesperal liturgy for the Feast tonight.

[Kolokotronis]

“Our parish just had an icon done of St. Edward by Brother Claude Lane, OSB at Mount Angel. You can find a display of his icons on their Mount Angel Abbey website.”

We just had an icon of the Nativity written for us by a young Syrian American woman as a gift to the parish becausde it was her home parish for the past four years while she was in college. It is, in a word, magnificent and done in the pure Byzantine style. She presented it a few weeks back and after blessing it was put out for the people to venerate for a couple of weeks because starting this weekend tt will hang over the Prothesis which is the table inside the altar where the Holy Gifts are prepared during the Proskomidi (the Liturgy of Preparation which occurs before the Divine Liturgy). This is the traditional place for the Nativity Icon in churches. As you may know, icons are not placed randomly throughout a church but rather in specific places dictated by 1300+ year old tradition.

[maryz]

Yes — thanks for the ping! :)

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

As I understand it the style of Eastern icons continues in the tradition of art in the Byzantine world in general, which had changed from the naturalistic, even voluptuous portrayals of people in the Hellenistic and Classical Roman worlds to a much stiffer less realistic portrayal by the time of late Imperial Rome, such as in portrayals of the Emperor Constantine. Also technical skills were on the decline around the Empire. In the East this style was maintained in Christian areas until the modern era. In the world of Islam, which adopted the iconoclastic attitude which had temporarily existed in the east, portraiture vanished. In the West skills declined further until the early Renaissance, when influences such as the admiration for Classical Art and the rise of science which led to the discovery of perspective led to the rise of realistic art in the West until the end of the 19th century.

[longtermmemmory]

bump

[kosta50]

As I understand it the style of Eastern icons continues in the tradition of art in the Byzantine world in general, which had changed from the naturalistic, even voluptuous portrayals of people in the Hellenistic and Classical Roman worlds

That is true, in general, as you say, but the Russian Orthodox Church in the 18th century experienced some degree of Lionization unbeknownst to most Westerners. During this period, their icons reflect that influence.

Notice the face and garb are more "photo" like (remember Byzantine tradition places no shadows on holy images), although all the theological elements remain unchanged. Again, this is only a period (and not only in Russia, but in other Orthodox countries). Russian Orthodox Church is distinctly Byzantine before and after that period.

You have Greek icons in the latter part of the 19th century America also characteristically showing westernizing influence (including clean-shaven priests), only to revert back to the tradition on its own.

[Kolokotronis]

“You have Greek icons in the latter part of the 19th century America also characteristically showing westernizing influence (including clean-shaven priests), only to revert back to the tradition on its own.”

This was true into the first 25 years of the 20th Century. Many parishes, like my own, have those sorts of icons on the iconostasion, though nowhere else. I suppose they will be, properly, replaced after my generation goes. The same by the way was true in Greece and there many later 19th century churches have iconostasia which soar almost to the dome in the Russian fashion. Older and newer ones are far less high. Many icons in Greece show the influence of Westernization either derivatively from Russian or more directly from, for example, Italy.

[Just another Joe]

OK, I know that this is a religon thread, but I just can't resist.

Icons are those little pictures on your computer desktop.

;^)

[kosta50]

The church across from the Serbian Patriarchy in Belgrade is an 18th century building with raised pulpits like those found in Catholic churches, and icons that are clearly Lionized as can be seen form the iconostasis. The image sare not Byzantine in their art style at all, but rather resemble Western classical paintings.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Interesting and beautiful. For anyone who has not been to the beautiful National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, at Catholic University in Washington, DC, it is in the Byzantine Style, with a somewhat iconic style image of Christ Pantocrator above the altar. See this link top of page on the left: “http://www.nationalshrine.com/site/pp.asp?c=etITK6OTG&b=107985 “

[kosta50]

For anyone who has not been to the beautiful National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, at Catholic University in Washington, DC, it is in the Byzantine Style

I think most Orthodox would not see that otherwise beautiful presentation as Byzantine at all.

[annalex]

No, of course not. This posture, blessing with both hands, is known as Second coming of Christ (Pantocrator usually holds the Gospel in the left hand and blesses with the right). Here is a Byzantine example:

Second Coming of Christ
Greece, ca 1700

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Well the Church says it is the Byzantine style, and as you remember, it is infallible!
;-)

[Kolokotronis]

The icon of the Second Coming, however, is not appropriately placed in the main dome of the nave of a church.

The National Shrine is an interesting structure which architecturally is certainly quite Byzantine. Inside its obviously Western, but there are, here and there, some mosaics in there which are both Byzantine and truly magnificent.

[kosta50]

Well the Church says it is the Byzantine style, and as you remember, it is infallible! :)

Only in Ecumenical Councils.