Posted on 12/03/2008 11:08:18 AM PST by DogwoodSouth
Not really new news, for those of us apart of these (previously separate little) groups which now form the APNA!
It was announced a few weeks ago that this meeting was to take place...
BUT, this really is GREAT NEWS!!! It is amazing too, that all the little groups (Fox didn’t mention) were able to get together and agree on this. You may have heard of “Anglican” mission churches underseen by African (or South American) bishops—made up of folks who separated from the Episcopal Church? There are something like 7 or 8 of such groups....but now, we are all parts of one denomination.
The numbers are (relatively) huge too. This brand new Province makes up 100,000 and the 200 year old Episcopal Church has around 700,000 now...down from a few million, just a few years ago.
PRAISE GOD FROM WHOM ALL BLESSINGS FLOW!!!
It is my understanding that, due to the kind of laisezz faire (allowing churches to decide for themselves) attitude toward womens' ordination to the priesthood within this coalition, Continuing Anglican churches are not a part of this. Bishop Duncan did announce that the new Anglican Province of North America will not allow women bishops however.
The various groups making up this new Anglican Province of North America are members of a group called the The Common Cause Partners, who are:
* American Anglican Council
* Anglican Coalition in Canada
* Anglican Communion Network
* Anglican Mission in the Americas (AMiA)
* Anglican Network in Canada
* Convocation of Anglicans in North America (CANA)
* Federation of Anglican Churches in the Americas
* Forward in Faith, North America
* The Reformed Episcopal Church
It's especially striking that the Reformed Episcopal Church is a part of this, as they broke away from the Episcopal Church over 120 years ago.
Evangelical Episcopalians have traditionally been open to female ministers (I think it's fair to say they had bigger fish to fry with gay bishops and all), whereas continuing Anglicans, based on Tradition, strongly oppose womens' ordination.
I'm an evangelical, however, I also (for primarily biblical reasons, with Tradition being 2ndary) oppose womens' ordination. I would like to see the new organization see the light on this issue--and in my opinion they will, eventually--but for now, none of the component organizations will be asked to change their policies (some do ordain women, others don't).
I've found that oddly enough, younger evangelicals tend to be more conservative on the womens' ordination issue than the baby-boomer and up age range of evangelicals. Maybe the Gen-X and younger have grown-up with the results of hyper-feminism and just don't like it....
Just my own observation (for whatever it’s worth), but I can’t help but see women’s ordination as the proverbial “elephant in the room” in this situation.
To put it very simply, Truth (ya know, the immutable, capital-T kind) is unchanging and cannot contradict itself. Either women’s ordination is demonstrably provable from Scripture and Tradition and is divine will OR it is not part of the Christian faith. How is agreement on this issue somehow less important than the inherent Truthfulness of the Church’s teachings on human sexuality?
In other words, I can’t understand how this can be thrown in with “compromisable” issues. If one diocese is “in communion” with another diocese that permits women’s ordination, it is tacit approval of the practice IMHO. There’s no gray area there any more than there can be a gray area on the topic of human sexualality. In fact, the two issues are actually related on a mystical level.
Just my two cents....
BTTT
That's certainly not true in my Orthodox parish, at least as evidenced by the political bumper stickers and pro-life license plates I see on cars in the church parking lot.
You have a point about the overlapping Orthodox jurisdictions. That does not, however, bother me very much. Perhaps that's because by tghe time I left TEC the only dogma the heretics seemed to care about was jurisdictional purity ("Don't cross my boundaries, bro!").
I am a member of an Antiochian Orthodox parish. We tend to have large numbers of converts, perhaps because of the mass entry of the Evangelical Orthodox Church. You might feel right at home in a convert parish. There are some Orthodox parishes that use a Divine Liturgy based on the 1928 Prayer Book. I am happy myself with the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
I had not heard about Metropolitan Jonah's comment about Obama. That surprises me, but I'd like to hear the context. I listened to some of his talks on Ancient Faith Radio and he seemed uninterested in politics, only in Jesus Christ. Given his statements about stopping the tragedy of homosexuality and the importance of reaching out to traditional Episcopalians, I would be very surprised if he is a lib. He may be somewhat naive, after all he spent the last 12 years in a monastery.
I am glad your parish members voted pro-life. I have not seen any statistics for Orthodox in this last election. I do know that traditionally the majority of Orthodox do vote Democrat. I also know that the majority of Catholics voted for the pro-abortion ticket in the last election, despite the teaching of the Catholic Church.
I had not heard about Metropolitan Jonah's comment about Obama. That surprises me, but I'd like to hear the context. I listened to some of his talks on Ancient Faith Radio and he seemed uninterested in politics, only in Jesus Christ. Given his statements about stopping the tragedy of homosexuality and the importance of reaching out to traditional Episcopalians, I would be very surprised if he is a lib. He may be somewhat naive, after all he spent the last 12 years in a monastery.
I didn't say Johan was a lib. What he actually referred to was Obamamania when people from Chicago started applauding his speech. And people in the OCA are now comparing him to Obama. That may say much more about some of the members of the OCA than Jonah himself. Somebody embezzled between 4 and 5 million dollars from the OCA. Since he was in a monastery most of years this crime was taking place, he didn't have any thing to do with it. Perhaps that is why he got elected, in addition to delivering a good speech.
I like Orthodox theology. I have gotten a great deal of meaning from the theology of John Zizioulas, Metropolitan of Pergamon. I always try to find an Orthodox parish to attend for the midnight Paschal service. I think Orthodox do a much better job of celebrating Easter than Western Christians. But I think Western Christians do a much better job of celebrating Christmas. And I will remain a Western Christian.
I wish you Merry Christmas.
I agree with you about Pascha and Christmas, even though a well-done western Easter Vigil sets a high standard (I attended Holy Week services at Canterbury in 2000).
If you get a chance, you should attend an Orthodox Theophany (Epiphany) service on January 6. It's quite impressive, especially if part of it is done outside by some water.
Blessed Nativity!
Metropolitan Jonah has NOTHING to do with Barack Hussein Obama or his anti-Orthodox crew of appointees and hangers-on (e.g., Biden, Hillary, Samantha Power).
Met. Jonah’s election has just been compared to Obama’s, because he is relatively young, untainted by the OCA’s scandal, and his election was unexpected and occurred after a stirring speech.
I wish that Met. Jonah’s election would instead be compared to that of St. Photios the Great, who was rapidly elevated from a layman to reader to priest to Patriarch of Constantinople. There have been other great examples in Orthodox history. (Jonah was a very new Bishop before he was elected.)
Jonah’s speech, as well as his sermons, etc. were purely about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not liberal clap-trap. They are available on the OCA website—judge for yourself.
Sooner or later, traditionalist Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. who join conservative enclaves will be faced with the reality of their true home in Orthodoxy. I know—I am a former ELCA Lutheran who was received into the Orthodox Church last April, and I am an OCA member who also attends a Serbian Orthodox parish once a month.
I am not the one who made the comparison of Jonah to Obama. That came from members of the OCA. Jonah himself referred to Obamamia when the audience responding enthusiastically to his speech.
I do hope the OCA can restore confidence after all those millions have been embezzled. But the usual way to restore confidence is to bring a charge in court and let that person or persons defend themselves.
If the people who committed this crime of embezzling millions of dollars goes completely free, the OCA will not restore confidence in the church hierarchy. I believe this is what Job was indirectly referring to in his most recent pastoral letter. After all, he was the one who asked the question years ago, Are the charges true or false? And if they are true, somebody needs to be prosecuted by the law. That has not happened.
The criminal proceedings against the perpetrators were initiated a few months ago by the OCA in the State of New York, according to the OCA website.
In parallel with the OCA scandal, a similar financial scandal occurred in the Lower Susquehanna Synod of the ELCA. While the ecclesiastical proceedings against the perpetrator in that scandal went forward, he civil courts ground slowly in the background, and the perpetrator was recently convicted. I expect the same to happen with the OCA.
In Jonah’s speech, he spoke of large sections of American Christianity “dissolving”. especially the Episcopal church. He especially cited the wrongness of supporting “gay” “marriage” and abortion. This is REALLY unlike Obama and his crew, who have more of an affinity with “Selfish Gene” Robinson than they do with any Orthodox heirarch. Met. Jonah has a heart for the evangelization of the lost sheep who are bereft by the dissolution of the “mainline” churches, as do I.
I was not aware that criminal charges were being pursued. That only took a few years.
In Jonah’s speech, he spoke of large sections of American Christianity “dissolving”. especially the Episcopal church. He especially cited the wrongness of supporting “gay” “marriage” and abortion. This is REALLY unlike Obama and his crew, who have more of an affinity with “Selfish Gene” Robinson than they do with any Orthodox heirarch. Met. Jonah has a heart for the evangelization of the lost sheep who are bereft by the dissolution of the “mainline” churches, as do I.
I think we are talking about different speeches. I was talking about the speech Jonah gave on Tuesday evening, November 11, at the All-American Council before he was elected. That speech was not about evangelism. It was about cleaning up the corruption in the OCA and restoring trust. When people stood up to applaud during the speech, he ad-libbed a joke about Obamamania. Many of those people seem to have been from Chicago.
I wish him and the OCA all the best.
Conservatives for a Rival Religion?????
NO, we left a heretical denomination to uphold the authority of Holy Scripture and to defend the faith which was handed to us thousands of years ago.
It is the Episcopal leadership that has formed a new progressive humanistic religion.
Misleading title.
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