The Messianic Jew & Charismatic Dispensationalism

The Messianic Literary Corner ^ | 11/30/2008 | Marshall Beeber

[mbeeber]

	The Messianic Jew & Charismatic Dispensationalism by Marshall Beeber In the nineteenth century a theological revolution called "Dispensationalism" rightly outlined the "Biblical Historical Perspective", thereby giving mankind a clearer picture of how God has provided and continues to provide salvation to man throughout history.  By acknowledgement of this perspective, an accord between Hebrew Old Covenant and New Covenant prophecy was forged, sweeping away many of the contradictions that divided Christian and Orthodox Jewish prophetic viewpoints.  Dispensationalists became God's instrument of change in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries,  leading the way in promoting the support of the establishment of the state of Israel and bringing to light the prophetic signposts for the "End of this Age". But when Dispensationalists took a theological stand against the excesses they found in contemporary "Charismatic" Christianity, they "Quenched the Holy Spirit" by denying the validity of most Charismatic Christian spiritual experiences.  The result of this schism today is an eschatology shared by both Fundamentalist and Charismatic Protestant Denominations, but a sharp disagreement on the exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Dispensationalists claim they are protecting the kingdom of God from spiritual frauds and false theologies, while the Charismatics believe they have tapped into the "true baptism" of spiritual experience.  Both sides have valid arguments as well as excesses.  The Dispensationalists often times exude an overly dry manner in their presentation of scripture and worship, while the Charismatics often exude a "heart first" approach, which lends themselves susceptible to erroneous doctrine presented in an exuberant fashion. Today most Messianic Jewish fellowships and congregations are disciples of one of the two movements mentioned.  As prophetic events move us closer to Messiah Yeshua's (Christ Jesus) return, believers are reminded of the Hebrew prophet Joel's promise of "prophecy, dreams and visions" among the elect of Israel before the great and terrible "Day of the Lord".1  Dispensationalists believe these occurrences were only present in the times immediately following the "Day of Pentecost" and will be present during the times just preceding "Judgment Day", where Charismatics believe these expressions of the Spirit were present from the Day of Pentecost continuously to the present day.2 Nevertheless, as the great "Day of Judgment" approaches, both Fundamentalist and Charismatic Christians should have more to agree upon than disagree.  When Dispensationalists accept they are living in the days just preceding the "Second Coming of Christ", they must also accept the very teachings they originally postulated. So as the "Day of the Lord" draws near, even Dispensationalists must accept those movements of the Spirit prophesied by Joel and recited by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. I believe Messianic Jews (Hebrew Christians) and Gentile Christians from Fundamentalist, Charismatic and Reformed backgrounds will soon come to an understanding that events much greater than themselves will soon shape their understanding of the Lord's will in regards to commonly held beliefs and attitudes.  We will all witness the same wonderful signs, tribulations and persecutions, whereby our love for the Lord Yeshua and one another will be tried and refined.  It is then that Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ will finally be united in purpose and strength as we all await the "Coming of the Lord". 1. Joel 2:28-29 2. Acts 2:16-18 (Additional studies and commentaries are requested. Feel free to email MLC your materials for posting)

[editor-surveyor]

"The more I learn, the more I wish we had a holiday celebrating the future return of the King of Kings."

Or did you mean "The more I learn, the more I wish we observed the holiday celebrating the future return of the King of Kings?"

The feast of Tabernacles is stated to be for all and forever. The return will be it's second fulfillment.

[mbeeber]

Topcat,

Let me be clear though on Paul permissive attitude towards Torah observance. Torah observance should not the derided among MJs. MJs need to set their obedience to New Covenant principles first. After attaining this understanding and freedom, they may enjoy certain aspects of Torah without being bound to the Law.

My first reference is Colossians 2:16 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

My second reference is 1 Corinthians 10:23-27 “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

My third reference in the area of food is: Romans 14:14 “As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean”

In no respect is Paul anti-Torah. He does not thought let Torah limit the freedoms he has in Messiah. This is the doctrinal struggle that believers must understand. To be free in Christ requires submitting ever authority under His feet, including the Law. In doing so, we are free to worship in a Jewish fashion.

Now Gentiles in Christ are not called to Torah. They are free to observe Torah as are Jewish beleivers, but they are not advised to do so.

[safisoft]

You see, you show ignorance of the Torah (and Messianic Judaism) when you think that Paul mixing and eating with Gentiles was not Torah observant) - the fact is, the is a lot about First Century Judaism you don’t know about because you base your “history” on sources that promote the notion that G-d’s Word is subject to change...

[mbeeber]

Dear Editor-surveyor,

You may not understands the tenants of New Covenant doctrine. Paul was no longer bound to Torah since he was free in Messiah. He may have observed Torah, but he was also free in Messiah to do otherwise. If Paul were not free, he would not have been able to minister to gentiles successfully.

Paul cound not have written doctine on freedom if he were still legally obligated to Torah.

My first reference is Colossians 2:16 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

My second reference is 1 Corinthians 10:23-27 “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

My third reference in the area of food is: Romans 14:14 “As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean”

[topcat54]

Peter was also Torah observant, and Paul rebuked him for pressing his observance on others.

You are missing some of the picture.

Paul rebuked Peter for living like a gentile and then withdrawing when men from Jerusalem arrived

"for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Gal 2:12)

Paul opposed Peter’s hypocrisy.

"I said to Peter before them all, ‘If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?’" (v. 14)

Peter had no trouble "playing goy" until the Jewish brethren from James arrived. He was rebuked for being a hypocrite, not just for suddenly forcing certain old covenant practices on the gentiles.

I can image the words from Peter to the gentile believers went something like this, "You see those guys over there from Jerusalem. It would be a whole lot easier on me and everyone if you would just live a bit more like us Jews. I’m not talking about circumcision here, just cut back on the BBQ pork and shrimp scampi, and, oh, if you could change your clothes and put on something more Torah-friendly, that would be great. That would demonstrate to me and these guys how much you really love Jesus. You want us to believe you love Jesus, don’t you? Oh, BTW, me and the boys are having a new moon service next week. God really loves it when you people show up for one of those gigs. It really makes us feel like you are one of us."

Righteousness comes by faith, not be being "Torah observant". Those who argue they are only doing these things from obedience are skidding of the edge of error. Paul in Galatians ties Peter’s actions to works-righteousness.

"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (v. 16)

Peter was just as free from the Law as the gentiles he ate with in Galatia. He knew that it was not what went into a man that defiled him, but what came out. Anyone who argues for ceremonial law-keeping is not only confused but demonstrates a desire to live in old Jerusalem under a covenant of bondage like the children of Hagar and ought to be avoided since works-righteousness pollutes the soul.

[topcat54]

Torah observance should not the derided among MJs.

Well, perhaps you can explain how to be Torah observant without man-made inventions regarding the Law. I am particularly hounded by folks who like to beat up us gentiles because we claim the ceremonial portion of the old covenant has ended, having been fulfilled in Christ. They usually like to invoke Matt. 5:17-19. They then proceed to ignore the implications of their interpretation of Matt. 5 when they play pretend Passover once a year, or Yom Kippur, or Tabernacles, etc. Pick any feast day or new moon and the modern Messianics have had to do a whole lot of Torah twisting to make it play on their terms. Take Passover in particular. How can any Jewish believer invite a gentile believer into an ersatz Passover celebration and not claim they have unilaterally altered the Torah (Exodus 12:43ff)? I know how they do it. They spiritualize it all away. They say gentiles are spiritually circumcised so they can some in. How true, and how convenient. How much of the rest of the Torah can we do that to and still be considered "Torah observant"? Under those rules even I can be considered "Torah observant"!

Now we have them example before us of one who believes he was made a Jew because he was circumcised by whom? Who knows? Certainly no one with divine authority to make a gentile into a Jew under the terms of the new covenant.

Can you explain it to me? If it is not purely cultural and devoid of any religious significance, who gave anyone the right to change the rules here in the 21st century?

Don’t get me wrong, I take seriously these words.

"1 "Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I teach you to observe, that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. " (Deut. 4)

"18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Rev. 22)

I can’t see what passes for modern "Torah observance" as anything but arbitrary. The only viable solution to the problem is to see all the ceremonials are entirely temporary and indicative of the person and work of Jesus Christ, and have ended in the 1st century, having faded and passed away (Heb. 8:13). This has been the universal position of the Church since the first days after Christ. No longer two, but one new covenant man.

That which abides eternally is the Ten Words written by the very finger of God on tablets of stone, indicating its universal permanence.

[mbeeber]

Topcat,

You may want to consider toning down your reply to Editor-Surveyor. Your statement below is a bit over the top!

“Anyone who argues for ceremonial law-keeping is not only confused but demonstrates a desire to live in old Jerusalem under a covenant of bondage like the children of Hagar and ought to be avoided since works-righteousness pollutes the soul.”

My aim is to convince those who hold to Torah to understand the freedoms they are called to, thereby holding to Torah observance in a “non-obligatory” fashion. I believe you will notice, if not already the permissive tone in which Paul instructs us.

Otherwise, we may be rightfully accused of being “anti-nomian” (against the Law). The scriptures indicate that Messianic believers are not under the injunction of Torah. Pauline doctrine stresses that all believers should maintain a knowledge of New Covenant freedoms. Many modern Messianic Jews are still struggling with the basic tenants of Pauline doctrine. Their unhistorical and undoctrinal interpretation of Paul and his teachings has led them to an antogonism with the Gospel professed in Protestant Christianity. If my teachings were anti-nomian, I would not consider the inclusion of Torah observance in the daily life of Messianic believers acceptable. Messianic Judaism should be permissive in it’s acceptance of Torah observance, but must never let believers feel obligated in their worship and daily practice.

[topcat54]

the fact is, the is a lot about First Century Judaism you don’t know about because you base your “history” on sources that promote the notion that G-d’s Word is subject to change...

See what I mean. If they accuse you, a Jew, of ignorance because you do not read Paul on their terms, imagine what they say to us ignorant savages.

BTW, safisoft, where do you go to get your scabs and rashes checked out these days (Lev. 13:3)?

[Uri’el-2012]

Righteousness comes by faith, not be being "Torah observant".

Yes

The question is what do you do with your liberty in Messiah.

Do you use your liberty to reject His Holy Word and worship pagan feasts ?

or

Do you you use your liberty to worship YHvH as he has commanded ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[topcat54]

You may want to consider toning down your reply to Editor-Surveyor. Your statement below is a bit over the top!

Well, perhaps I have misread Paul's words in Galatians. I look forward to your reply to post #206 to clarify how I am to take all this.

[mbeeber]

Topcat,

Still over the top! Take a break.

[topcat54]

The question is what do you do with your liberty in Messiah.

See post #206. If you can explain how your "Torah-lite" practices fit with liberty in Messiah and honoring God’s worship better than anything I do, then please get to it.

Oh, BTW, make sure you accurately represent what I do. I don’t want you falsely accusing me of doing things I do not do, e.g., "worship pagan feasts"?

[topcat54]

Still over the top! Take a break.

Methinks I struck a nerve.

[mbeeber]

Wait a minute. Don’t take a break. I’ll take a break. Be back this evening.

[topcat54]

If my teachings were anti-nomian, I would not consider the inclusion of Torah observance in the daily life of Messianic believers acceptable.

Do you believe that it is de facto antinomian for someone to say, as I do, that the old covenant ceremonials were intended by God as temporary typology of the person and work of Jesus Christ, and therefore, no longer operative within with cultus of the new covenant? And that any contemporary regard for these (modified) ceremonials is only legitimate if it is purely cultural and not religious in nature.

[Just mythoughts]

Are we expected o be so blind that we should not see that Paul did not say to keep the Passover. Paul was expressing nothing more than a Christocentric theology where the old covenant Passover was a temporary type of Christ, the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world for the sins of His people. Christ is our Passover. Every time we celebrate Christ’s finished work we celebrate Passover. It is Finished!

Christ hanging upon that cross was quoting Psalms 22 when HE uttered the Words It is finished.... course most Christians fit the profile of what got the House of Israel her bill of divorce... Jeremiah 3:8 ... spiritually speaking.

Reading stuff into a passage what is plainly not there is a poor excuse for claiming to understand Paul better than everyone else. Inventing a pretend Passover and other feast days in order to follow something not in the passage only compounds the error.

I can't wait for those who hold fast to their quick like a bunny, egg rolling festival on what should be to Christians most sacred remembrance, get the what for of feast keeping. But God did say he sent the spirit of slumber upon those who do not have eyes to see or ears to hear.

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>The question is what do you do with your liberty in Messiah.

See post #206. If you can explain how your "Torah-lite" practices fit with liberty in Messiah and honoring God’s worship better than anything I do, then please get to it.

Oh, BTW, make sure you accurately represent what I do. I don’t want you falsely accusing me of doing things I do not do, e.g., "worship pagan feasts"?

212 posted on December 4, 2008 11:41:46 AM MST by topcat54

#206 is not germane.

Is Easter scriptural or pagan ?
Think 325CE Nicea.

Is Christmas scriptural or pagan ?
Think 325CE Nicea

Is Sunday scriptural or pagan ?

Think: Council of Laodicea 364CE
( rule of and by the people in Greek )
to be conducted on Sunday, not Saturday.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[topcat54]

course most Christians fit the profile of what got the House of Israel her bill of divorce

"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it." (Matt. 21:43)

"Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;" (Matt. 23:36-38)

I can't wait for those who hold fast to their quick like a bunny, egg rolling festival on what should be to Christians most sacred remembrance,

That's not my schtick. Argue it with someone else.

It does not improve your interpretation in my view. Perhaps you would like to try addressing the issues I have raised. Tell us how you observe Torah. Perhaps you could start with a detailed explanation of your Passover observance or your Sabbath practices.

[topcat54]

#206 is not germane.

I have no doubt that is true for you.

[editor-surveyor]

"Paul was no longer bound to Torah since he was free in Messiah. He may have observed Torah, but he was also free in Messiah to do otherwise. If Paul were not free, he would not have been able to minister to gentiles successfully."

No argument, but that is not what you said in the post to which I replied. No one is 'obligated' to Torah, but that does not make Torah ineffective in a fruitful life. We are not condemned by ignoring God's appointed times, but neither are we blessed. We are not condemned for inventing our own nonscriptural observances such as Easter and Christmas, but neither are we blessed.

I want the blessings.