Remnant: Who Is Israel?

Modern Reformation ^ | 2007 | Michael S. Horton

[topcat54]

Has God Rejected Ethnic Israel?

Paul rounds out his argument in Romans by applying the double action of God in election and the hardening he described earlier (9:11-18) to the present state of Israel, yielding a remnant despite a more general rejection (11:7-10). But then he asks: "[H]ave they stumbled so as to fall? By no means!" (v. 11). The rhetorical structure indicates a parallel with the first verse of this chapter: "I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means!" Whatever conclusions can be drawn about Paul's teaching on the current redemptive-historical status of Israel, a simple supercessionism or "replacement" theology is unsupported. The New Testament church does not replace Israel, says Paul.

Reformed interpretation of Scripture has traditionally insisted, especially in opposition to what it has regarded as an Anabaptist (and dispensationalist) disjunction between old and new covenants, the continuity of a single covenant of grace, even to the point of referring to the new covenant church as an extension of the old covenant church. This accords with the language of kahal ("assembly," "congregation"), which the Greek version of the Old Testament translates synagoge or ekklesia, which is then carried over into the New Testament designation for the people of God. Israel is the recipient of the laws and promises, the covenants of Sinai and Abraham, and whatever happens to extend the family is in fact an expansion rather than replacement of Israel. It is through the earthly, physical, ethnic Israel of God that the covenant of grace has unfolded throughout history and now reaches outward to the nations. Yet, Paul adds, it even circles back to include a massive ingathering of ethnic Jews at the end of the age.

[topcat54]

The author concludes:

At the Synod of Jerusalem, this christocentric interpretation of election and redefinition of Israel in line with the prophetic texts was officially adopted and it was Peter who gave such eloquent testimony to this interpretation that Gentile believers, no less than Jews, are justified by grace through faith without any distinction (Acts 15:8-11). Circumcision counts for nothing: everything turns on faith in Christ, announced by the gospel (Rom. 2:17-29).

The attitude we must have toward ethnic Jews is that of Paul the Jewish apostle to the Gentiles, who would have willingly born Israel's "anathema" in her place (Rom. 10:1-3). At the same time, we must remember that this anathema is not over Jews as Jews, but over all of humanity apart from Christ. If we really follow through with the Pauline logic (maintained elsewhere in the New Testament, as it was seminally in the prophets), there is no more guarantee that a particular visible church that bears the name Christian will not fail to have its candlestick removed should it live by any principle other than faith in Christ. It is therefore not ultimately a question of whether one is a Jew or a Christian in terms of outward organization, but of whether one is "inwardly circumcised"-that is, buried and raised with Christ. Nothing that exists apart from him-even that which calls itself Christian, can live, and nothing that is in him can die. Jesus is not only the federal head and mediator of the covenant; he is in his very person "a covenant to the people" (Isa. 42:6).

[topcat54]

Reformed Eschatology Ping List (REPL)
Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based

"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)

[RJR_fan]

The “Israel as God’s timeclock” perspective is not as convincing as it was 20 or 30 years ago. 1978 and 1988 — 1948+30, and 1948+40 — are ancient history, now. Do we now want to wait around for 2018, 1948+(3*20)+10 ? And if we decided to restart the “clock” from 1968, the re-united Jerusalem, then 1998 is history, and so too is also, 2008. SO — to maintain credibility, we need to back away from overconfident assertions concerning signs, since the dating game crowd is not renowned for its intelligence or its scholarship.

[Alex Murphy]

The “Israel as God’s timeclock” perspective is not as convincing as it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Were you aware that Hal Lindsey now date-sets the "Second Coming" date about 1000 years in the future, far ahead enough for him to avoid dying of embarrassment?

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Were you aware that Hal Lindsey now date-sets the "Second Coming" date about 1000 years in the future, far ahead enough for him to avoid dying of embarrassment? [link removed]

i'd love to find a first edition of The Late, Great Planet Earth, just to laugh at the bogus predictions.

As far as embarrassment, he still has to deal with a number of ex-wives. He's been embarrassing Christ long enough.

[Uri’el-2012]

And if we decided to restart the “clock” from 1968, the re-united Jerusalem,..... 2008.

Consider

1968 plus forty years of Judgement => 2008.

Israel in the person of Moshe Dyan rejected
YHvH's Temple Mount and returned it to the Evil One.

Forty Years "Number in scripture" by E W Bullinger

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Alex Murphy]

Consider 1968 plus forty years of Judgement => 2008.

Are you expecting Christ to return in the clouds - or at least rapture His Church - within the next five weeks?

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>Consider 1968 plus forty years of Judgement => 2008.

Are you expecting Christ to return in the clouds - or at least rapture His Church - within the next five weeks?

No ( but I pray daily )

but I do expect something after the forty years
of Judgement on Israel and the Prince of Persia.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Alex Murphy]

No but I do expect something after the forty years of Judgement on Israel and the Prince of Persia.

I think I can agree with that.

[topcat54]

but I do expect something after the forty years of Judgement on Israel and the Prince of Persia.

What judgment? Or should I ask, whose judgment? And who is this "prince of Persia"?

[topcat54]

Were you aware that Hal Lindsey

Anyone who tells time based on the modern state of Israel deserves nothing but ridicule. Lindsey is still a fraud.

[RJR_fan]

Were you aware that Hal Lindsey now date-sets the "Second Coming" date about 1000 years in the future, far ahead enough for him to avoid dying of embarrassment?

At last count, Hal was on marriage #4. He recycles books and spouses as each is overcome by time. I suspect we get the teachers we deserve, even as we get the political leaders we deserve, so I ask God to help us become better people.

[RJR_fan]

but I do expect something after the forty years of Judgement on Israel and the Prince of Persia.

Let me cite the observation of a Romani ("Gypsy") fortune teller:

Keja said that the avidity for fortune-telling came from an inability to cope with one’s anxieties. Instead of satisfying, it created a self-perpetuating greed for prophecy, akin to compulsive gambling, only more harmful since one lost not money but insight. It blinded one to the causes of one’s problems, and this was “madness.” It was a vain and self-defeating search for expedient solutions to the problems of moral integrity, and was caused by an unwillingness to face life as it was. Most people consulted fortune-tellers primarily to seek the confirmation of their fears, more often than of their hopes. Fears could become father to a wish, for many subconsciously want to have happen that which they said they fear most. Keja said that fear impoverished, while the acceptance of scorrow could enrich. (Law and Society, R. J. Rushdoony)

See my tagline. "Prophecy teaching" was of the things that aborted the "Jesus Movement," a genuine revival. It took me decades to regain the credibility I lost to apocalyptic hysteria. Bad theology is a harsh taskmaster. Parents who buy into a defective doctrine of healing sometimes lose their children to diabetic comas. People who buy into a ludicrous eschatology end up looking like Delta Dawn, pitiable lunatics, rather than capable and competent servants of the King.

Delta Dawn, what's that flower you have on
Could it be a faded rose from days gone by
And did I hear you say he was a-meetin' you here today
To take you to his mansion in the sky-eye


She's forty-one and her daddy still calls 'er "baby"
All the folks 'round Brownsville say she's crazy
'Cause she walks downtown with her suitcase in her hand
Lookin' for a mysterious dark-haired man


In her younger days they called her Delta Dawn
Prettiest woman you ever laid eyes on
Then a man of low degree stood by her side
Promised her he'd take her for his bride


Delta Dawn, what's that flower you have on
Could it be a faded rose from days gone by
And did I hear you say he was a-meetin' you here today
To take you to his mansion in the sky-eye

[enat]

Horton mistakenly ties the unconditional promise of the land and nation to the conditional Sinai Covenant. The promise of blessing and land are inextricably tied together in the eternal covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Gen. 12:1-3 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Gen. 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Gen. 17:7-8 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Gen. 26:2-4 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gen. 28:13-15 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Israel has been exiled three times (Egypt, Babylon and since the Roman Empire) but twice they were returned to the land. The promise is if they repent they will be brought back again. They might be dispossessed, but they can never lose ownership of the land.
Lev. 26:40-44 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes. And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

The purpose of Israel’s election won’t be fulfilled until the last days when Jesus (Shiloh) comes again and all His enemies are defeated and every knee bows to Him.

Gen. 49:1, 8, 10 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

8. Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>but I do expect something after the forty years of Judgement on Israel and the Prince of Persia.

What judgment? Or should I ask, whose judgment? And who is this "prince of Persia"?

The forty year judgement as outlined in J R Bullinger's book cited above.

Not unlike the forty year judgement from the crucifixion
to the destruction of the temple in 70 CE

The wrath of YHvH.

Persia is modern day Iran.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Uri’el-2012]

Sorry

Forty Years "Number in scripture" by E W Bullinger

[topcat54]

The forty year judgement as outlined in J R Bullinger's book cited above.

Sadly, Bullinger is not here to debate. No doubt he could defend his thesis to some degree. Since you mentioned it, can you think for yourself and outline this 40 year judgment from the Bible? Why would God pour out His wrath on a future generation of Israel?

Not unlike the forty year judgement from the crucifixion to the destruction of the temple in 70 CE

But that generation was specifically prophesized in the Bible in places like Matthew 24:4-34, directly from Our Lord.

Persia is modern day Iran.

No it isn't. Persia is Persia and Iran is Iran. There is no Scripture that can get you from ancient Persia to modern or future Iran. It’s a futurist fantasy.

[topcat54]

Horton mistakenly ties the unconditional promise of the land and nation to the conditional Sinai Covenant. The promise of blessing and land are inextricably tied together in the eternal covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

If the land promise was unconditional to physical nation of Israel, on what grounds was God able to eject the people from the land. Why is God able to place conditions on the land promise in places like Deuteronomy 28:45ff? Why was God able to bring nations like Assyria and Babylon against Israel to carry the people off to captivity, and to subjugate them by the nation of Rome. Why have they been displaced from the land for 2000 years?

Obviously, if you do not read the NT carefully and see how it interprets the Old you will never truly understand the nature of the promises. Yes, they were unconditional insofar as they were made with the Seed, Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:16). He is the surety. The old covenant land promise was a foretaste who the real blessing offered to Abraham and his true children. We are told that the meek will inherit the earth (Matt. 5:5). We are that the promise to Abraham was that he would be the heir of the world (Rom 4:13). We are also told that Abraham was not looking for a physical land promise, but an eternal one (Heb. 11:8-10,16).

So, if you do not read the Old Testament in the light of the New you will miss the real nature of the promises, just like the Jews of Jesus’ day who were looking for a physical kingdom and missed their Messiah. They were judged for it. There are many folks today who are making the same mistake as those unbelieving Jews with regard to the promises of God. They continue to dwell on the type and are missing the Anti-type, the Person to whom the type pointed.

[enat]

“If the land promise was unconditional to physical nation of Israel, on what grounds was God able to eject the people from the land. Why is God able to place conditions on the land promise in places like Deuteronomy 28:45ff? Why was God able to bring nations like Assyria and Babylon against Israel to carry the people off to captivity, and to subjugate them by the nation of Rome. Why have they been displaced from the land for 2000 years”

They have been displaced because of their disobedience and unbelief just as Leviticus 26 says. However, there is the promise of restoration,

Lev. 26:40-44 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes. And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.”

This promise of restoration was repeated by Ezekiel during the Babylonian exile,

Eze 20:40-43 “For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things. I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen. And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country [for] the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers. And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name’s sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.”

Paul reiterates the same promise during the present exile,

Rom 11:25-28, “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes.”

[Uri’el-2012]

XS> Persia is modern day Iran.

No it isn't. Persia is Persia and Iran is Iran. There is no Scripture that can get you from ancient Persia to modern or future Iran. It’s a futurist fantasy.

I guess you didn't get the Memo.

Iran officially the Islamic Republic of Iran,
formerly known internationally as Persia until 1935,

from Google: iran

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai