What is your view on this Prophecy Tribulation Letter?

Was Oct. 29, 2008, the first day of the Final 7 Years, or the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel?!!! I believe the evidence that I am about to present to you makes a VERY strong case for this to be the truth. Most of you believe that this could not be the case because there has been no Rapture yet, and no confirming of a 7-year peace treaty by the Antichrist.

I believe there was an event one week ago on Oct. 29, 2008, that thrust the world right smack dab into the Final 7 Years of human history, as we know it. Please be patient enough to read this entire letter because if what I am about to present to you is the truth, then all of our lives will never be the same again.

I would like to briefly introduce myself, although some of you will remember me. I have written a couple of letters to Five Doves a year ago, and a few in 2004, and in 2000-2001, and several in the late 1990’s. My ministry has consisted of graduating from a Bible Institute, pastoring 2 churches, being an evangelist on end-times prophecy and speaking in dozens of churches on this subject, and writing 36 different tracts on the 2nd Coming of Christ. We now have almost 10 million tracts in circulation.

I have had numerous conversations with Jim Bramlett and had dinner with him a couple of times at the International Bible Prophecy Conference in Tampa, Florida. I have attended numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences over the years, usually with my own display table to offer my tracts, bumper stickers, tapes, Rapture t-shirts, etc. Many of you know Bonnie Gaunt, who has written several fascinating books on the end times and the Bible Codes, and appeared on TV on the 700 Club. Bonnie and I hosted a summer-long crusade on the End Times in our home city a few years ago.

Despite all of the above, I do not consider myself to be the in-depth student of end time prophecy that some of you on Five Doves are. Like most of you, I have been wrong on different things pertaining to the last days before and will probably be wrong again in the future. I have been waiting anxiously for somebody on Five Doves to see what I saw take place one week ago on Oct. 29, 2008, but nobody has come forth with it yet. Ted Porter is the only one who has come close.

Like most of you, I have been thrilled and fascinated by the abundance of evidence pointing to 2008 thru 2015 as the Final 7 Years. It has been, and STILL IS, OVERWHELMING. The only two years in my 35 years of studying the end times that have come this close to creating this much evidence and excitement have been 1998 and 1988. Notice, all 3 years end in 8, the number of new beginnings.

The evidence for the autumn of 2015 being the 2nd Coming of Christ and the end of the Final 7 Years seems to be staggering. Some of you have given up for this year because we are now into November and past the Feast Days for 2008. I hope what I am about to present to you will renew your hope that 2008--2015 are indeed the Final 7 Years before Christ returns.

During my attendance at numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences, there has been one speaker who has earned the respect of most all attendees and been the most sought-after speaker, and the one who has the biggest crowds around his book table. It is not Jack Van Impe or Hal Lindsey. It is in-depth Bible Prophecy scholar J.R. Church, of Prophecy in the News, author of Prophecies in the Psalms and numerous other books on the end-times. J.R. has been consistent in his belief that the 70th week of Daniel has to be during a 7-year Sabbatical cycle. I have seen him get excited about the possible Rapture during 1987, 1994, 2001, and 2008 because these years were the beginning of 7-year Sabbatical cycles. With the autumn of 2008 thru the autumn of 2015 being another 7-year Sabbatical cycle, it seems the perfect time for the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel to begin, AND I BELIEVE IT HAS!!!

So much evidence has come forth this year concerning 2015, including the lunar and solar eclipses right before and right after Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015. Jesus told us there would be evidence of his 2nd Coming in the sun, moon, and stars. Do you believe Him??? According to Bonnie Gaunt’s “Jubilee Study” in her Aug. 10, 2006, letter on Five Doves, and several others, the autumn of 2015 begins not just a new Sabbatical year but also a JUBILEE YEAR!!! WOW!!! That only happens once every 50 years.

Ted Porter of Five Doves has been pointing to this same exact 7-year period of Oct. 29, 2008 thru Sept. 23, 2015, for being the the Final 7 Years for quite some time and has even written a booklet about it. I urge you to use the search engine on Five Doves and type in Ted Porter. He will give you much more information about this 7-year period that began last week than I can give you here. 7 X 7 = one Jubilee cycle. It seems extremely likely that God would give Israel one Jubilee cycle from the highly significant day of June 6-7, 1967, when they recaptured their holy city of Jerusalem. 7 X 7 X 360 days (a Jewish year) from that all-important day of June 6-7, 1967, takes you to Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, right to the day!!! Amazing!!! This should be the Final Day of the Final 7 Years, when Jesus returns at the Battle of Armageddon. Everything points to this being the case.

On Oct. 13, 2008, Ted Porter wrote to Five Doves an article entitled, “When is Jesus Returning? The Answer is 42!” In that article, Ted did an awesome job of telling us why the number 42 has been presented as the one number in the Bible that means the 2nd Coming of Christ. The re-capturing of Jerusalem on June 6-7, 1967, which most prophetic scholars believe started the final generation before the 2nd Coming of Christ, plus 42 JEWISH YEARS takes us to Oct. 29, 2008, which should be the first day of the Final 7 Years. I have just showed you TWO AMAZING CALCULATIONS THAT TAKE YOU TO THE FIRST DAY AND THE LAST DAY OF THE 7OTH WEEK OF DANIEL, THE FINAL 7 YEARS. It is my conviction that we entered this 70th Week of Daniel on Oct. 29, 2008.

On Oct. 27, 2008, Jerry Grenough wrote to Five Doves with the article entitled, “It All Fits for 2008 Rapture”. In that article he wrote, that Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2008, will be Day One of the Tribulation. Ted Porter and others have come up with the same calculations. Can it be just a coincidence that there are so many things pointing to this 2520-day period, this Sabbatical cycle, this Jubilee cycle, with everything seeming to conclude on Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, and therefore, starting on October 29, 2008??? Never in history has there been such a perfect fit for the Final 7 Years, not even close. Do you honestly think things can go on like this for another 50 years (2 complete Jubilee cycles? Do you even think things can continue for another Sabbatical cycle, or another 7 years? It appears highly unlikely.

We have what many considered a 7-year warning on 9/11/2001. We have the economies of the world falling apart and ready to plunge right into the economic doomsday that is presented in the Book of Revelation. We have the world poised on the brink of World War III. We have Iran and Israel poised to unleash weapons of mass destruction at each other, not to mention the U.S., Russia, China, and others. We have the likely Antichrist poised to become President of the world’s only superpower. Can anybody say, “THE STAGE IS NOW SET!!!”

Most of you are probably ready to agree with me that the stage is now set. Many of you will agree with all of the above evidence that Oct.29, 2008 thru Sept. 23, 2015, appears to be the perfect time frame for the Final 7 Years. But the vast majority of you reading this still have two HUGE problems with this time frame, which we entered on Oct. 29, 2008. #1, there has been no rapture yet and #2, there has been no confirming of a peace treaty with Israel by the Antichrist yet.

Several times I have preached a sermon entitled, “17 Scriptural Reasons for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture”. I have always believed the Rapture would precede the 7-year Tribulation. You may have noticed that in this letter I have called this 7-year period of Oct. 29, 2008 thru Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, the Final 7 Years. After reading Sherry Vance’s article of last month and similar articles over the years, I have to admit that even though they probably do overlap, the Tribulation, the 70th Week of Daniel, and the Time of Jacob’s Trouble may not be the EXACT same time periods.

I have always believed and been taught in Bible School that the Tribulation would be 7 years, and the Great Tribulation would comprise the last 3 and one-half years of the 7-year Tribulation. I still believe the Book of Revelation teaches a 3 and one-half year Great Tribulation and that the 70th week of Daniel is 2520 days, or 7 Jewish years, long. The 2300 days mentioned in the book of Daniel has always been a mystery for Bible prophecy scholars. This 2300 days could very well be the shortened Tribulation period.

For those of us who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, this 2300-day theory would still give us several more months and several more options for the Rapture, if indeed the Great Tribulation and the 70th Week of Daniel concludes in the fall of 2015. Even though I will be writing follow-up letters with at least 2 possible dates for the Rapture during the next few months, one in 2008 and one in the first half of 2009, I am a firm believer that the Rapture will be the same day as the Sudden Destruction, and, therefore, may or may not be a day that we can calculate.

This takes us to the other obstacle for us already entering the Final 7 Years, which is the confirming of a 7-year peace treaty with Israel by the Antichrist. I was taught in Bible School, and have always believed this would be the event that actually began the 7-year Tribulation. The signing, or confirming, would be Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel. It is still my contention that Daniel 9:27 takes place (or should I say already took place) on Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel.

I believe there are 3 things that we need for Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel to take place. I used to believe the Rapture was the 4th piece of the puzzle. I no longer believe that because I believe we have entered the 70th Week of Daniel, as of Oct. 29, 2008, and no Rapture has taken place. I believe that will take place at the time of the Sudden Destruction, sometime in the next 7 months. The 3 things are 1. A potential Antichrist on the scene. 2. We need to be at the beginning of a 7-year Sabbatical cycle. 3. We need a confirming of the covenant with many by the potential Antichrist.

1. Because of the tremendous amount of letters about Barack Hussein Obama on Five Doves in the past few months, I will spare you in this letter all of the many reasons why I now believe this man will come to fulfill his role as the Antichrist in the very near future. Perhaps in another letter I will highlight a few of the reasons. More and more Christians every day are jumping on the bandwagon that this man, who is probably a Muslim, will fulfill his role as the Antichrist. Count me among them. So many Christians have this pre-conceived idea about the Antichrist, that they are totally closed to the idea that Obama could be the Antichrist.

I jumped off the Antichrist-must-come-from-Europe bandwagon a long time ago. Perry Stone, at a prophecy conference that I attended, was the first that I knew of who presented a case for the Antichrist coming from the other half of the Old Roman Empire, which comprises much of the Muslim Kingdom. It is difficult to imagine someone from Europe, with very little nuclear power, or someone from Jordan or Syria, actually controlling the whole world. However, a President of the United States, the world’s only superpower, with its vast nuclear power, who shows his true Muslim colors at the start of the 3 and one-half year Great Tribulation, that is a different story. Who is more likely to cut off your head if you do not take the Mark of the Beast, a European leader like Prince Charles, or a great leader in the Muslim world??? So, I believe we definitely have a potential Antichrist on the world scene in Obama.

2. October 29, 2009, seemed to be a perfect fit to be the first day of the 70th week of Daniel. As more and more evidence begin piling up for Obama being the Antichrist and more and more evidence pointed toward the Final Seven Years comprising the time period of Oct. 29, 2008?Sept. 23, 2015 (Feast of Atonement), I became increasingly puzzzled during the last several weeks as to how Obama could sign or confirm a 7-year peace treaty with Israel on Oct. 29, 2008, if he was not even going to be in power until January, 2009. I could not reconcile this dilemma.

I waited anxiously with all of you as we went through the Fall Feast Days of 2008, anticipating the Rapture. Like Ted Porter, Jerry Grenough, and others on Five Doves, after the Feast Days, I was still anticipating something REALLY BIG to happen on Oct 29, 2008!! Would it be the Rapture? Would it be the crash of the stock market? Would it be the unleashing of nuclear weapons? Would it be the signing of a Middle East peace treaty, that possibly Obama would confirm, or strengthen, after he was sworn in as President in January of 2009? Something just had to happen on this day, I reasoned. It was just such a perfect fit.

3. In 35 years of studying Bible Prophecy, I had never seen this much evidence pointing to one particular day to start the Final Seven Years. I went to bed on Oct. 29, 2008, thinking we could be off one day because of Jewish inclusive reckoning, or because of moon sightings in 2015. Still perplexed the next day, as I anxiously scanned the newspaper for some secret signing of a Middle East peace agreement, I went to Five Doves looking for insight on the previous day’s events, which again was Oct. 29, 2008. I began scanning the titles of the letters that appeared in Five Doves on Oct. 30. When I read the title of Lewis Brackett’s letter entitled, “Obama’s Covenant with Many”, it hit me like a bolt of lightning. My spirit was electrified, as I heard the words come to me out of nowhere, “IT HAS HAPPENED!!!”

The first opportunity I had I got out my Strong’s Concordance and did a word study on Daniel 9:27, which says, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week” What we, as Bible students have always been taught, is the Antichrist will sign, or strengthen, a 7-year peace treaty with Israel and several other countries. This is another of our pre-conceived ideas, that I now believe has proven to be false. It is a theory that has been derived from an overall study of Bible prophecy. There is certainly no Scripture that says the Antichrist will sign, or confirm, a 7-year peace treaty with Israel and several other nations.

When Jesus came the first time, very, very few recognized Jesus as the Messiah. It was because of their pre-conceived ideas, from misinterpreting Scriptures, that they got it wrong. Do not let your pre-conceived ideas about the Antichrist and a 7-year peace treaty with Israel, and a Rapture before the Final 7 Years begins, keep you from seeing what has just taken place. ANTICHRIST HAS CONFIRMED THE COVENANT AND THE FINAL 7 YEARS, OR THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL HAS BEGUN!!! We can know it has begun because of what has taken place on Oct. 29, 2008!!!

Here is what my word study in the Hebrew has revealed to me. Of all the words in that verse, the word “covenant” was the hardest to gain insight on. There was nothing about a peace agreement, nothing about a treaty. In fact, in the Hebrew, there was nothing even anything remotely suggesting that “the covenant” was any type of peace agreement, or a treaty of any kind. Study it for yourself. Covenant means to come together, to be of one mind, and promises. The Hebrew for “week” does mean seven years. There is nothing in the Hebrew to suggest the word “many” would involve a peace treaty with a handful of Middle East countries, as we have been let to believe. Instead, the Hebrew word “many”, indicates an abundant number, ten thousands, or millions, a HUGE number, or a multitude. The Hebrew meaning of “confirm’ would indicate to strengthen, to put more strength to, to prevail, to exceed, to be great, to be mighty.

I do believe the “he” in Daniel 9:27, does represent the Antichrist, who comes in Daniel 7:25 “to CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS”. Based on the word study on Daniel 9:27, which says, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week”, here is what I believed happened on October 29, 2008:

Barack Hussein Obama put himself on nationwide TV, on 7 major TV networks, and in front of over 33 million people, confirmed, or strengthened, or re-affirmed, or summarized his platform, his promises, to be of one mind and to all come together, or his COVENANT with the people. He strengthened his covenant (his promises). The intention of his covenant, or his promises, was not only TO STRENGTHEN, but also to PREVAIL on Election Day, to EXCEED during his presidency, TO BE GREAT, and TO BE MIGHTY. The title of his message was, “A Closing Argument to the Everyman”. I would say that Everyman would sure include a whole lot of people. Besides the 33 million that watched his speech on Oct. 29 on TV, millions more saw it later on news broadcasts and on the Internet. Certainly, the “many” involved an abundant number, a huge number, a multitude, yes, millions upon millions of people, not just a handful of countries that we have come to expect the “many” to represent.

During this speech, Obama said he was going to change the country and CHANGE THE WORLD!!! His main platform has been to “PREPARE FOR CHANGE”. Daniel 7:25 says the Antichrist is coming to CHANGE times and laws. The “confirming of the covenant with many for ONE WEEK”, simply was put in Scripture so we could identify the 70TH WEEK of Daniel. In other words, God is allowing us to identify the Antichrist and the first day of the 70th WEEK of Daniel at the same time. I BELIEVE GOD IS SAYING THAT WHEN YOU SEE A PRIME CANDIDATE FOR THE ANTICHRIST CONFIRMING A COVENANT (OR PROMISES) IN FRONT OF MANY (MILLIONS AND MILLIONS) ON THE VERY SAME DAY THAT CALCULATES OUT TO BE THE VERY FIRST DAY OF THE FINAL 7 YEARS, KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ENTERED THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL.

WHEN WE SEE AN OUTSTANDING CANDIDATE TO BE THE ANTICHRIST STRENGTEN OR CONFIRM HIS COVENANT OR PROMISES IN FRONT OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ON THE EXACT DAY THAT EVERYTHING POINTED TO BE THE FIRST DAY OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO THINK???? That it was all just coincidence??? A word study of Daniel 9:27 in the Hebrew tells us that WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH OBAMA ON 0CT. 29, 2008, WAS, INDEED THE FULFILLMENT OF DANIEL 9:27.

There is nothing at all in the Hebrew language that would even remotely suggest that this verse was talking about a peace treaty with Israel and a handful of other nations. Apparently, it really has nothing to do with a 7-year peace treaty with Israel. That is not to say that a peace treaty or agreement with Israel is not coming in the near future, but based on all the evidence in this letter, it will not be a fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

I strongly encourage you not to reject the message of this letter because of pre-conceived ideas of how end-times prophecy must play itself out. Please re-read this letter when you have time and remember to pray first that the Lord would show you if the message in this letter is true or whether it is false. Nobody, especially me, wants to be a part of deceiving anybody. I pray that you will let this letter change your life. Let it give you a new sense of urgency like you have never had before, to accomplish what the Lord wants you to do in these VERY, VERY LAST DAYS that we are now living in. That is my prayer for myself and for all of you.

I leave you with my favorite verses, Luke 21:34-36, “And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (partying), and drunkenness, and CARES OF THIS LIFE, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man (Jesus).”

2. The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Where in scripture do you read that Christ returns in secret? That passage in 1 Corinithians is a description of Christ's 2nd coming.

You posted scripture that says there is no secret about his 2nd coming:

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The 2nd coming of Christ will be the most visible event there is. There is no secret 2nd coming and a 3rd visible coming. At least not in scripture.

International Bible Prophecy Conference in Tampa, Florida. I have attended numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences over the years, usually with my own display table to offer my tracts, bumper stickers, tapes, Rapture t-shirts, etc.

Anyone who hangs out a prophecy conferences selling t-shirts is a prima facie phony.

Prophecy conferences are all about marketing the rapture, not the truth.

to accomplish what the Lord wants you to do in these VERY, VERY LAST DAYS that we are now living in.

So now we are in the "very, very, last days", as opposed to the "very last days" of Jack Van Impe or the "last days" of Hal Lindsey. I guess that makes it official.

I just love it when one futurist crank takes another futurist crank to task when they speculations are at odds (as they often are since they have little reference to the Bible).

John Hagee and Dr Charles Stanley also speak of the rapture as well as Messianic Pastors....

Hagee is wrong on so many things that it is difficult to separate truth from error when he speaks. E.g., his claim that Jesus was not the Messiah of Israel.

On the subject of the end times, Stanley (like many Southern Baptists) appears to just be regurgitating the pop pre-trib stuff that is floating around the ether.

Most messianic types have their own problems interpreting the Bible. The rapture theory is just one in a whole set of issues.

Perry Stone as well.

I’ve seen this annoying character on TBN. Again, like most pop futurists he is just regurgitating stuff that has been circulating for decades. Wake me up when anything he says comes to pass.

And so we find the "rapture ready" crowd consuming without question all the putrid, mind-numbing stuff that comes from the "prophecy preachers". They never stop to ask, "where is this all getting us? How is this advancing the work of the great commission?"

Sometime when I between the ages of 7-11 there was a “prophesy” that the world was going to end on March 6th, I think. Forgive me, it has been many years.

Obviously, it didn’t happen but the reason I remember it was that it stressed me out when I first heard it and made me sick to my stomach but I was a kid and soon forgot about it.

Then I came home from school one day and was playing with matches, I managed to get some dry grass on fire and then I couldn’t get it out! And then I remembered that the world was going to end and then I realized that the world was going to end that very day! And that I had started the fire that was going to destroy it all! ...and I was still more frightened of my mother than of God.

Vanity, it is all vanity. God is in control and we can only wait and wonder and follow the Lord so that when He does come we will be ready because even if the world doesn’t end soon, your life will, someday.

What Jesus said

Luke 17

20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[b] you."

22Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32Remember Lot's wife! 33Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d]

37"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

Matthew 24

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It is "possible" that Stone is fabricating stuff up. But I have been a Christian almost my entire life. I am very familiar with Bible references of the Bride of Christ, and have for years been very intrigued with the analogy. To understand Christ as the groom and believers each being a wayward bride that Christ loves and would do anything for, and desires to have that type of intimate relationship with us, that is truely life changing.

What Stone mentions expands on that even more, and allows one to understand our standing with Christ even more. His explainations are very in depth and detailed. I could be wrong in listening and believing most of what Stone says, but I doubt it. I've put alot of my own reading into Gods word, BEFORE I listen to others. Stones explaination of ancient Hebrew weddings makes perfect sense for someone who already comfortably understands the biblical picture presented.

The only stretch then is tying it to prophecy. When one knows the word of God and sees how God has operated in the past its easy to see him operating that way in the present and the future.

I don't look to Bible "prophecy" teachers for revelation, I see them as inspiration. First and foremost I rely on Gods word. I listen to others, and weigh their words by the gospel, not the other way around.

I look to others to learn from, but never put my faith in "them."

We all come to FR mainly to learn, and then maybe to voice our own opinions. How do any of us know what is the truth that is posted here. We post, and we read things, and read more things, that give us a broader and more complete picture of things. Over at DU they do something somewhat similar. The difference being they post things that fall in line with their world view. They ban and ridicule anything of opposing views. They call it learning, but it really isn't

Here at FR we might have certain world views, but we study and learn from others and reason for ourselves. Banning and ridicule are reserved mostly for people posting far out stuff with no basis in reality, or not presenting coherent thought, or just trying to cause trouble.

There are many discussions here with people who disagree with this point or that point. But it is exactly those discussions that either enlighten or enrich one, or confirm and strengthen ones beliefs.

To understand Christ as the groom and believers each being a wayward bride that Christ loves and would do anything for, and desires to have that type of intimate relationship with us, that is truely life changing.

First of all, nowhere in the Bible are individual believers referred to as the bride of Christ. That term is reserved for the Church as a collective body.

And while it may be life changing for you, but there is nothing in the Bible about the Church per se being a "wayward bride". I suspect this is Mr. Stone’s embellishment, and the uninformed may take it seriously. If his knowledge of all things Jewish has led him to this conclusion, then he is selling something not explicitly given to us in the Bible.

The only stretch then is tying it to prophecy. When one knows the word of God and sees how God has operated in the past its easy to see him operating that way in the present and the future.

Actually, it is not, not with any divine authority anyway. God operated specifically with regard to the old covenant nation of Israel. That nation no longer exists. Israel, as the wayward nation, had the kingdom taken from them and given to the Church (Matthew 21:43), God’s true "holy nation" (1 Peter 2:9,10). There is no biblical warrant for trying to extrapolate how God dealt with ancient (old covenant) Israel and apply that to secular nations today. Again, this is where Mr. Stone appears to go too far in his theories.

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