Anger over gay marriage vote directed at Mormons

AP via SFGate ^ | 11/12/8 | ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writer

[Stourme]

On Prop 8, I’m not sure what some people thought “evangelicals” were going to do. I mean there isn’t really a “church” per say.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is an actual Church that can mobilize behind a cause. Same as the Catholics.

And to be quite candid, it’s best that everything with an “evangelical” label just stay way from anything dealing with public opinion and a vote.

Evangelicals have sowed their own seeds for a long time. I believe the media’s coverage of how evangelicals biased views of Mitt Romney was the last straw. At least it was in my extended family...who don’t identify with any religion.

My extended family voted for Romney in the primaries, but voted for Obama in the election. I was told with no uncertain terms that they wouldn’t vote for an evangelical.

Everyone is shouting about the abuse that elderly lady took when she walked into the middle of that pro-gay crowd carrying her cross....IMO, the fault was 90% hers. She’s lucky that’s all they did to her. Again, just IMO, I think that was her goal. It was stupid.

Prop 8 passed. We won. Rubbing someone’s nose in it, especially when they are upset, is un-Christ like in every way.

[Elsie]

I don’t understand how so many white racialists of so many religious persuasions can say today’s Black people are descendants of Cain when all Cain’s descendants died in the Flood.

Simple.

They do NOT know what the Bible says!

The BOOK does NOT say...

"Take a snippet here and a chunk there and a piece here and add some of your own ideas to be 'approved unto GOD'."

[Elsie]

 Now ya gotta remember that this "first vision" -- though not published for well over a dozen years after it supposedly occurred -- was said by Smith to have taken place when he was only 14 years old.

 

But to WHICH version of the 'vision' are you going to refer?  There are a BUNCH of them!!

 

 

 FIRST VISION:VARIOUS VERSIONS OF VISIONS  

Version Number  When  Published  Brief Description	Age  Year	Pillar   of  light	No. of  Person-  ages	Father  Present	Son  Present	Question:  Join What  Sect?	Remarks-References
1. Offical version,  written 1838,  first  Published 1842  (There are minor differences between the various source references, Ensign  Jan 1985, page 14)	14   1820	yes	2	yes  Both spoke	yes	Join none	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sophronia join the Presbyterian Church - JSH, pages 49-50, 1981 edition; Times & Seasons, March, April 1842; Ensign Jan. 1985, page 14; Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backamn, Bookcraft, 1971, 1980, Appendix C, page 160f
2. Dictated by Smith to F.G. Williams, Summer to Nov. 1832	14 or 15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw Lord, He  "spoke"	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix A, page 155f
3. Written by Smith, his 1832 diary, in his own hand	15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw the Lord Jesus  Christ	No question,  told sins forgiven, all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984, pages 24-26; ibid, Jan. 1985, page 11
4. Smith's diary of 1835, recorded by Warren Cowdery, Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Smith with Joshua	About  14	yes	One, then another like unto first	?	?  Second spoke, saw  many angels	No questions, told sins forgiven, Jesus is Son	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appen. B
5. Letter form Smith to John Wentworth, editor of Chicago Democrat	none	no	2	?  They spoke	?	No Question	Joseph Smith's  First Vision, Appendix D; Ensign, Jan 1985, page 16; Times & Seasons, Vol  3, pages 706-707, March 1, 1842
6. Early church leaders Brigham Young, G.A.Smith, John Taylor	15	no	1  Saw an angel, and asked the angel	no	no	Join none	See Journal of Discourses,   2:17; 18:239; 13:77, 78; 20:167; 12:333, 334.

 

web/firvista.html 
5-11-95, Rev 8-8-98

 

John Farkas,     Berean Christian Ministries, P.O. Box 1091, Webster, N.Y. 14580

[Elsie]

There are a lot of one liners and sound bites being used around here.

Yup; those old Mormon leaders REALLY said some wierd stuff; didn't they!

---

Many do not mean what they sound like because of the mixing and mis-matching of ideas.

(But the other 98.7% do.)

I'm sure you'll post everything in context to show just how WRONG we anti's are: right?

[Elsie]

Also, since you are an expert at knowing exactly what the bible says and what it means, please do humanity a favor and describe exactly what Revelations means.

Translation:

YOU play defense for a while; as we are getting tired.

[Elsie]

By Jewish standards all of chr*stianity is on very shaky ground, but this is not the place to argue about it.

THOSE have worked out quite well... ;^)

[freeplancer]

Please quit pinging me. You offend me with your negativity.

[Elsie]

You offend me with your negativity.

Gee; that's too bad.

Don't type anything that is HERETICAL and I'll probably not have to reply to it.

[Elsie]

I'm sure you'll post everything in context to show just how WRONG we anti's are: right?

(I guess not!)

[freeplancer]

Jesus.....is that you?

[Elsie]

I’m sure you’ll post everything in context to show just how WRONG we anti’s are: right?

[Ronin]

Listening to you Yahoos worrying about which flavor of Christianity is the best is making me think the Buddhism might be the right way to go after all.

I am SERIOUS. I am sick of this nonsense.

Do I believe in GOD? Yes I very much do.

Do I believe that Christ was the Son of GOD? No answer. I don't know and Himself has not taken the time to clue me in on that. I'll keep you posted.

Do I believe that abortion is wrong? Do I believe that homosexuality is wrong? Do I believe that the 10 Commandments have it right in most cases? Yes I do!

Do I believe that the Catholics have it any more up on the Mormons or that the Protestants (of whichever denomination) have a better grip on the God thing than the the Catholics or the Jews do?

Again, no answer.

God has not taken the time out of his busy schedule to clue me in. From where I sit there is not very much difference between the lot of you, although I think some are more thickheaded than others.

Do I think that all of you people should get your collective heads out of your nether regions and start dealing with the collective REAL AND PRESENT ENEMIES that threatens EVERYONE, even in my case loosely, are trying to do the good, right and moral thing?

Look for clues...

[Elsie]

God has not taken the time out of his busy schedule to clue me in.

Yes; He has.

---

Do I believe that the 10 Commandments have it right in most cases?

Which ones do you think are wrongt?

[Ronin]

I am the Lord your God.

OK. Right. Like the RULER OF THE UNIVERSE needs me to tell him how wonderful he is. And if I don't he will cast me into HELL or even worse, San Francisco.

You shall have no other Gods before me.

OK.

You shall not make an Idol.

No problem. I am bad at sculpture anyhow.

You shall not make a wrongful use of the name of your God.

How's that? God is a generic term for the ultimate deity. Lots of religions say they have the name of God, but except for the ones I will not mention out of respect for my Jewish friends, I have no idea what to call Him anyhow.

Remember the Sabbath and kept Holy.

Uncheck. I have no Sabbath. I have been "baptized" as a Catholic (shortly after I was born) as a Baptist (at my first foster home) and also as a Mormon (at my second foster home). I did not perceive any benefit from any of them except that in the case of the Baptist baptism, I got a nice dinner afterwards, but according to all of them, I am going to hell. What’s the use???

Honor your father and mother.

Orphan. You do not want details. Dog days.

You shall not commit murder.

Hasn't happened yet. I don't see it happening since I don't even like to kill cockroaches.

Do not bear false witness.

This is one I seriously try to keep. I do believe in God and I do think my actions have meaning.

You shall not commit adultery.

OK, here I have to take a fail. Not that I have been married before but simply because I think that God is trying to say "don't screw around" and I am guilty of that on multiple counts. But I have now been living with the same woman for more than eight years and have been faithful to her all that time.

Neighbors wife?

Not likely. She looks like a gargoyle, but with less humanity.

Do not covet, etc. etc.

No problem. I have what I need, I don't worry about things I don't have. If I can eat, sleep and relax at the appropriate times, it’s enough.

Again... you Yahoos make me tired. I'm going to bed.

[freeplancer]

Why do you revel in confrontation and negativity? What would Jesus do? Seeking amusement as an anonymous sniper ought to get you right into heaven. It is so sad that I won’t be there too.

[scory]

“Contending for the faith” has been an excuse for every type of crime and atrocity committed in the name of religion for as far back as we have records.

I realize the utter futility of arguing about this and so this will be my last post on the matter.

To battle over matters of doctrine with people who profess Christ but not in the way you like is, in my view, satanic. It seems that memebers of every sect tend to do this to one degree or another. All they accomplish is to create contention, anger, resentment and to discredit the entire faith in the eyes of non-believers.

As for me, I figure God is fully capable of judging who is and is not a true devotee. And I KNOW that men are corrupt, foolish, prideful, angry, slothful and quick to proclaim their own dearly held views as ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Absolute truth does exist. You find it in the doctrines of every sect though, unfortunately, not always given the weight it should.

The greatest commandment is to love God and the second greatest is to love others and from these “hang all the law and prophets”. But again, it is a waste of time to point this out as human beings are fully capable of justifying anything - and will.

God be with you.

[Ronin]

Amen and Amen!!

[Ronin]

This religion thing. I just don’t get it. I have tried to BELIEVE in various sects..... un my childhood those beliefs where encouraged with the rod and the the threat of lack of affection...

...which is WHY I hate the idea of gay adoption... Kids emulate their parents...

We do not really select our religion. Most people get it from their parents. Theygrow up with it. Unless they the street rats, like me.

I had a nasty childhood. So none of them stuck. I love the Christian ideal. If you guys are right I expect I am going to have to talk smartly to St. Peter.

I wish I could believe like you guys do. But the brain that God gave me always wants to know WHY and you guys don’t have any answers except “GOD SAID SO”, but God didn’t....

At least not to me...

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers.

That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.