Pius XII Saw "Miracle of the Sun" [Catholic Caucus]

ZNA ^ | November 4, 2008 | Antonio Gaspari

[NYer]

Ping!

[stormer]

Sounds like parhely.

[snarks_when_bored]

If Obama can become President, anything is possible.

[NYer]

Wow ... what’s parhely?

[dsc]

So, parhely can instantly dry rain-soaked earth and the rain-soaked clothes of thousands of people?

[stormer]

Atmospheric phenomena that's a result of suspended ice crystals. Kind of a extreme version of a ring around the sun or moon.

http://optics.kulgun.net/

[stormer]

I think that over time memories can become distorted (either intentionally or not). Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[Dominick]

The sun is still as bright as ever, I have observed sun dogs plenty of times. The example picture you showed only occurs in extreme weather.

I am sure Pius XII had as well.

This doesn't describe the Miracle of the Sun as written about at Fatima.

[steve86]

For all the sophomoric Atmospheric Sciences 101 students here that meteorological explanation was thoroughly considered and rejected within days of the occurrences. The Vatican had considerable scientific analytic support which is engaged in the case of suspected miracles.

[stormer]

This isn't what I would describe as a run-of-the-mill sundog. I have had the opportunity to observe phenomena such as this in the arctic. As you observe, depth perception is nonexistent, you almost swoon. You literally look away, rub your eyes, and expect not to see what you've just seen. Yes, I'm sure it's much more likely that a miraculous event took place rather than an unusual atmospheric phenomena interpreted by a bunch of Portuguese peasants or a guy who probably never left Italy his whole life.

[stormer]

Perhaps you could provide the Vatican's dissertation on why there was no meteorological explanation for the events at Fatima. I would be most interested, even considering that the Vatican may not be the most impartial of analytical bodies. All of us dumb sophomores await your findings.

[steve86]

You are correct: "[The] Vatican may not be the most impartial of analytical bodies". In fact, it is the most critical and skeptical. Any kind of pedestrian and commonplace explanation for seemingly miraculous phenomena is given the "benefit of the doubt" in the beginning until it can be dismissed. This is because the Vatican requires the highest standard of evidence for those occurrences that are pronounced miraculous in the end.

No, I'm not going to spend an afternoon and wade through volumes of Italian to satisfy your request. But rest assured many of us have seen references to these investigations.

[steve86]

Just another unsupported (and no doubt unsupportable) claim.

Like "God exists"? /sarc

[A.A. Cunningham]

One need not prove a negative. The burden is upon the accuser to disprove it. ie “When did you stop beating your wife?”

[dsc]

“I think that over time memories can become distorted (either intentionally or not).”

An unwarranted assumption. The facts are gleaned from contemporary accounts, not musty old memories.

Watch “Fatima” http://www.amazon.com/FATIMA-Ricardo-Montalban-Award-Winning/dp/B0010VJK22 if you dare, then look at those contemporary accounts yourself.

“Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

What we have here is prejudice getting in the way of truth.

[dsc]

“I’m sure it’s much more likely that a miraculous event took place rather than an unusual atmospheric phenomena interpreted by a bunch of Portuguese peasants or a guy who probably never left Italy his whole life.”

How illogical, how downright unscientific, to form an opinion on the basis of a subjective estimate of likelihood, rather than an examination of the evidence.

[dsc]

“Just another unsupported (and no doubt unsupportable) claim.”

If you really cared to find the truth, you wouldn’t sit back like some oriental pasha demanding to be spoonfed. You would exert yourself to the slight degree required to find the truth of the matter.

[Dominick]

Italy is not at all the Arctic. Rome is at 41.5N, about 60 degrees off the pole. My point is you just claimed it must be a sun dog, and implied the Pope would not know the difference. This wasn't something he issued a press release over, this was something he felt was a private revelation.

I never “swooned” while seeing a sun dog. The sun also doesn't appear to spin.

You said, “he never left Italy” and all the Portuguese are peasants, implying that they must be idiots and not as smart as you. How fortunate for you. Do you know who saw the sun dance at Fatima? Of course it can't be a miracle because you know better. How fortunate for you.

Maybe you should learn why we put Catholic Caucus in the topic.