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To: wideawake; Gamecock; Quix
I think the point of the post is, there were a LOT of very bad guys who were popes, from the early to late Middle Ages. Certainly not all, and not even most--and maybe you can disprove a detail here and there...but the original sources for all these facts...AND accusations (granted), were, due to the times, and the heresy laws...., loyal Roman Catholics--not horrible, wicked, devilish(shudder!) Calvinists or Lutherans.

This very much, in a common sense way, flies in the face the claim that Rome's primates are the sole "vicars of Christ" or that "ex Cathedra" (however you might define that...) they speak for God.

It also, again in a common sense way, throws a monkey wrench in the idea of "uninterrupted" apostolic succession if the "see of St. Peter"....even if only 5% of Boetner's alleged histories are true.

169 posted on 10/16/2008 8:12:33 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

VERY WELL PUT.

Though I’ve long thought that basic summary was

obvious

to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.


170 posted on 10/16/2008 8:17:08 AM PDT by Quix (POL LDRS GLOBALIST QUOTES: #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: AnalogReigns
I think the point of the post is, there were a LOT of very bad guys who were popes, from the early to late Middle Ages. Certainly not all, and not even most--and maybe you can disprove a detail here and there...but the original sources for all these facts...AND accusations (granted), were, due to the times, and the heresy laws...., loyal Roman Catholics--not horrible, wicked, devilish(shudder!) Calvinists or Lutherans.

This is exactly why history needs to be examined rationally.

Pretty much every contemporary who bothered to write nasty things about a medieval Pope was related to or working for that Pope's political enemies.

And, as is expected, these authors - who saw the Popes they were criticizing as personal threats to their fortunes and ambitions - did not hesitate to spread the most outrageous rumors they could.

What is incontrovertibly true is that every powerful man in Europe did his best to get his favored candidate on the papal throne, and a large number of Popes were - as a result of this struggle - politicians first and pastors second. Sometimes a very distant second.

However, these political popes probably lived lives like those of other petty medieval noblemen - which were not quite the same as the lives of the Roman Emperors. Most of the outrageous accusations leveled against these Popes by their enemies are cribbed from Suetonius' Lives Of The Caesars and are probably not actual descriptions of contemporary events.

This very much, in a common sense way, flies in the face the claim that Rome's primates are the sole "vicars of Christ" or that "ex Cathedra" (however you might define that...) they speak for God.

No Pope claims to "speak for God" - they claim to teach authoritatively what the Church, informed by Christ, believes.

And yes, the Popes are the only men who hold the stewardship given to Peter in its entirety.

It also, again in a common sense way, throws a monkey wrench in the idea of "uninterrupted" apostolic succession if the "see of St. Peter"....even if only 5% of Boetner's alleged histories are true.

Not at all.

An office does not cease to exist because its holder is a bad guy. George W. Bush is still a legitimate holder of the office of the presidency regardless of the way his predecessor disgraced the office.

Bill Clinton couldn't erase the legitimacy and continuity of the presidency. No more could an utterly useless prelate like Benedict IX erase the legitimacy and continuity of the papacy.

We are a Church of God's laws, not of men.

173 posted on 10/16/2008 8:46:56 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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