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To: Soliton; shroudie; grey_whiskers; NYer
STURP used less sensitive tests for blood, and shazzam, they found it! Around the STURP team grew up a circle of quacks that found all kinds of miraculous things. The real scientists never did.

More BOVINE EXCREMENT, Soliton. We have debated this before and I have provided linked chapter and verse from peer-reviewed science while you have merely cut-and-paste from out-dated skeptic articles by non-scientists or scientists whose field of expertise is completely outside of the science they are critiquing.

It was McCrone and the original Italian team that used less sensitive tests for blood, not STURP. STURP brought in some of the world's formost experts on blood and blood fractions to do the tests using much more sensitive tests. McCrone and the Italians used tests that were presumptive but not conclusive that were designed to be used on blood that was not more than a few years old. Their tests could not recognize denatured or fractionated blood. The list of tests used by Heller (a world renowned expert on Book), Adler (another expert on blood), Cameron (who is the world's foremost expert on hemoglobins and its derivatives) that ARE specific for blood, and indeed human blood, is extensive.

The STURP dudes flipped. They took away McCrone’s samples and tried to ruin him.

More misrepresentations.

First of all, the samples were not McCrone's. They were on loan to him from STURP and are actually, at the time, the property of the exiled royal family of Italy. It was McCrone who was refusing to release the samples and was later proven to be obfuscating other's attempts to research the issues. After more than a year of trying to get McCrone to return the samples, or to pass them on to other researchers, the leaders of STURP had to physically repossess them from McCrone. When they did gain possession, they found that McCrone had violated the protocols under which he was loaned the samples, damaging them. This is undisputed.

Secondly, no one tried to "ruin" McCrone. McCrone's own statements did that well enough. I am not going to repeat what I have already posted to you on this subject, with citations from McCrone's own work changing and re-changing his "findings", as well as others, again. It is obviously pointless.

The sampling had been very closely scrutinized and no one confirms the existence of these threads and microphotographs of the samples do not show any missing threads. He (Gonella) did not have authority to distribute any samples.

Again, not true. Gonella, as the official Custodian of the Shroud, the duly designated representative of its current owner, the Pope, IS the person authorized to distribute and control who receives samples. If Gonella, the Pope's designated representative, was not authorized to release samples, WHO WAS? Only the Pope? God? Your veiled hints, without proof other than the assertion of equally biased "skeptics," that he, in collusion with other scientists such as Raymond N. Rogers, conspired to perpetrate a fraud on the world, is reprehensible.

Rogers wrote a paper that slipped through the peer review process and appeared in a real scientific journal. The press seized on it as proof that the c-14 tests were flawed. They weren’t. Rogers’ paper was nonsense covered in pseudoscience. Interestingly, he stole from McCrone in it making claims he had ridiculed earlier.

You are beneath contempt. It did NOT "slip" through the peer-review process. You only wish it did. Now you resort to slandering a dead man who cannot defend himself from your calumny. PROVE your assertion that Rogers stole ANYTHING from McCrone. PUT UP OR SHUT UP, Soliton.

The STURP true believers have lied, stolen, and violated Vatican rules to keep the myth alive.

More unfounded libel and slander. PROVE IT.

Your sole purpose on these threads is to attack other Freepers and spread falsehoods and innuendo.


68 posted on 09/28/2008 6:17:10 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker

The Rogers Article in Acta was a joke. It was destroyed. That’s why the STURP boys came out saying they had verified his results.

Rogers’ vamnillin theory of dating has beed discredited. He states that it was highly temperature sensitive. In fact ALL vanillins would disappear in SECONDS at temperatures above 200 degrees centigrade. The shroud had been exposed to temperatures high enough to melt silver! He claimed that the thermal resistance of linen (this is one part stolen from McCrone) would have meant that some vanillin would have been found somewhere on the shroud, but he claims that there was NO vanillin ANYWHERE on the shroud! How can he know this? All of the samples ever taken comprise less than one percent of the shroud’s surface area. He only had two threads and a piece of the Raes sample to work on. The threads were supposedly from the center of the samples actually tested. No such threads are known to exist AND photomicrographs of the samples show no threads missing. Gonella DID NOT have authority to release samples to Rogers as I have already posted.


91 posted on 09/28/2008 10:59:28 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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