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To: Swordmaker
sample that now turns out to be a melange of old and newer material, that when accurately dated, reports an average of the ages of the older and newer material which accidentally fell within the range the skeptics expected.

This is factually incorrect and doesn't even map to the excuse Rogers gave. It has been demonstrated that "melange" wouldn't have produced the date that was arrived at. Rogers claimed that the whole sample was from the 14th century and was a later invisible patch. He claimed that Gonella gave him threads from the middle of the samples tested. This is a lie. No threads were missing from the samples. There is no provenance for the alleged threads. No one saw Gonella take them. No one knew of their existence, and Gonella and Ricci had been ordered to return all samples to the Vatican before Rogers did his alleged tests. The Raes samples he said he had were stolen property. All of the samples taken at that time were supposed to be returned to the reliquary. Rogers was a fraud and a thieif.

52 posted on 09/28/2008 3:18:02 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton; grey_whiskers
This is factually incorrect and doesn't even map to the excuse Rogers gave. It has been demonstrated that "melange" wouldn't have produced the date that was arrived at. Rogers claimed that the whole sample was from the 14th century and was a later invisible patch. He claimed that Gonella gave him threads from the middle of the samples tested. This is a lie. No threads were missing from the samples. There is no provenance for the alleged threads. No one saw Gonella take them. No one knew of their existence, and Gonella and Ricci had been ordered to return all samples to the Vatican before Rogers did his alleged tests. The Raes samples he said he had were stolen property. All of the samples taken at that time were supposed to be returned to the reliquary. Rogers was a fraud and a thieif.

Either you are lying, Soliton, or your sources are lying. You are making claims that were NEVER stated. Your claims are FALSE.

I have come to believe that you cannot comprehend the science you are reading.

Rogers did not assert that the entire C14 test sample was composed of 14th Century material. His findings were that it was composed of a mix of possible SIXTEENTH CENTURY material and original Shroud material of unknown date.

The math used to date C14 samples is easily shown to compute that a mix (a melange) of 16th Century (approximately 1532AD- well within the 16th Century) and 1st Century materials, mixed in a 40-60% to 60%-40% mixture of old to new materials will produce an average C14 date that matches the dates reported in the 1988 C14 Shroud tests. The math is not difficult. The calculation of those percentages was done by Harry Gove, the inventor of the C14 testing procedure that was used on the Shroud, when he was asked what would be the results of such a mixture, not Rogers.

It is also known that a sub-sample was retained from the C14 test prime sample as a check and control and was NOT BURNED, and is in the possession of the Custodian of the Shroud. Threads taken from that retained sample were sent to Rogers.

Your claim that the Raes Sample threads were stolen. Prove your assertion. Raes Sample threads have been released to many researchers. However, if Rogers is correct, and the Raes sample is NOT shroud material but is actually part of the patch probably added in the 16th Century. What is known is that the Raes sample threads do not match the threads of the main body of the Shroud.

70 posted on 09/28/2008 6:51:45 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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