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To: topcat54

I can see that you know how to spell words that I do not even know the meaning of, but i assume that you believe that there is no return of christ until after the thousand year reign, is that right?

The bible states in several versus,s ( Christ will return at the last day. I have not seen any place where it says he will return before that.

As far as the rapture is concerned I believe the verse in 1 cor 15 v 51 and 52 is misunderstood by so many people, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.

It doe,s not say that every one will not die, it just says they will not sleep in death, but will be resurected at once
when they die. during the time of the last day how ever long the last day is? ( I do not believe in the rapture theory )

What every one needs to do is to read all of ch 15 and the verse,s that lead up to verse,s 51 and 52 also it explains that the first resurection occured when Christ rose,
those people that went with christ had been sleeping for years or hunderds of years.

verse 12 now if christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there be no resurrection of the dead? ( in other words they were saying there was no resurrection except for chirst)

Verse 13 but if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen. ( then christ could not have been risen either )

verse 23 But every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ,s at his coming. ( The firstfruits went with christ, we are waiting for his coming. ) I( if we are waiting for his coming at the last day, then when could the firstfruits have gone except to go with Christ?

The firstfruits are the 144000 and they went with Christ.

the rest of the believers will be resurrected at the time of thier death after the last day starts, the last day could be a thousand years, or one day and it will be after or along with the tribulation. this is something I struggle with.

St matthew ch 27 v 52 and 53 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose and came out of the graves and went into the holy city and appeared unto many. ( this was obviously done for a sign to the people )

Guestion, was these people killed again and put back into thier graves or did they go with Christ as the 144000?

I believe they went with Christ as the firstfruits.

Paul explains in romans ch 8 v 29 and 30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called and whom he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified , them he also glorified. this is all past tense, it already happened. ( why would he have prepared them if they were not to go with Christ as the firstfruits? )

St John ch 12 verse 23 The hour is come, that the son of man should be glorified, he is speaking of his death and resurrection, resurrection is to be glorified. so the people paul is speaking of has to already be resurrected.

I am not trying to act like a know it all because I am not, and i realize there could be some mistakes in my thinking but its the way i see it although it would be impossible for me to put it all down to where any one could understand it very good.
would like to hear your view.


5 posted on 09/19/2008 10:29:08 AM PDT by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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To: ravenwolf

Thanks for your comment, and I’ll make this short. There is no identification in the Bible of the one hundred and forty four thousand with those who were brought back to life at the time of Christ’s death. We do not know what happened to those, like Lazarus, who were brought back to life by Christ. The Bible does not tell us. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate anyone other than Christ ascended to the Father at that time. Speculation about things not given to us in the Bible can lead to theological problems.


7 posted on 09/19/2008 4:30:46 PM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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