Posted on 08/25/2008 11:46:50 AM PDT by Antioch
In an appearance on the NBC program Meet the Press on Sunday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a self-professed Catholic, denied that the Catholic Church condemns abortion.
Referring to Barack Obama's now-notorious answer to Pastor Rick Warren to the question of when life begins, Meet the Press moderator Tom Brokaw asked Pelosi, "Senator Obama saying the question of when life begins is above his pay grade…If he were to come to you and say, 'Help me out here, Madame Speaker. When does life begin?' what would you tell him?"
Pelosi responded by sidestepping the question, appealing to her Catholic faith as the source of her uncertainty.
"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time," she said. "And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator - St. Augustine said at three months. We don't know."
Pelosi then said that in her view the question of when life begins is a non-issue in the debate on abortion.
"The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child - first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There's very clear distinctions. This isn't about abortion on demand, it's about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and - to - that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god."
Brokaw continued to press Pelosi on the question, observing, "The Catholic Church at the moment feels very strongly that it… begins at the point of conception."
Pelosi again side-stepped the question, suggesting that the Church's current position is only a recent position and that "over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy."
The President of the Catholic League, Bill Donohue, responded to Pelosi's statements on Meet the Press, observing that the Church's position on abortion is clear beyond any doubt. "Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: 'Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.'"
He continued, "It also says, 'Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.' Looks like Pelosi didn't study the subject long enough. But not to worry: We are sending her a copy of Catholicism for Dummies today."
Kathryn Jean Lopez, the online editor of National Review, quipped, "It's the blind leading the blind in that party if the 'ardent practicing Catholic' doesn't care when life begins, only that women have the choice to do what they 'choose' (sometimes, thanks to people like Pelosi, not aware of what their choices actually are) whether it's life or not."
Pelosi concluded her appearance by contradicting another doctrine of the Catholic Church by advocating contraception. Contraception is officially condemned by the Catholic Church as "intrinsically evil."
"My Republican colleagues do not support contraception. If you want to reduce the number of abortions, and we all do, we must - it would behoove you to support family planning and, and contraception, you would think," she said. "But that is not the case."
Harridan: a scolding, vicious woman; hag; shrew. [Origin: 1690–1700; from the french “haridelle”... meaning a “thin, worn-out horse or large, gaunt woman
thanks - i thought it meant harlot.
CCC Paragraph 2270
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.
Um. No.
Careful - some people on here are going to conflate Pelosi’s statements to “Official Vatican Policy” and then demand to know why Catholics are in favor of abortion. I see one of them already trying.
I hate to be the one to say this, but, 'Official Vatican Policy' seems to be meaningless outside of the Vatican...
The Vaticans's Bishops as well as who knows how many Cardinals and of course, priests, totally ignore the Vatican Policy...
Appears as tho there really is no Vatican policy...
Peggy Noonan nailed this one to the wall when she said in her recent article that everyone who’s ever used a condom knows exactly when life begins.
It is not.
The Vaticans's Bishops as well as who knows how many Cardinals and of course, priests, totally ignore the Vatican Policy...
False.
Appears as tho there really is no Vatican policy...
With your eyes wide shut.
However! The advances in embryology alone over the last 100+ years have removed all doubt as to when and how fertilization occurs, and how the initial cell grows via division. That aspect alone proves that the fertilized ovum is "alive." At least on the same level as single-celled and primitive mullti-celled organisms are indisputably "alive." Advances in genetics, at any rate, clearly tell us that this dividing mass of cells is not just the same morally as simple organisms. The Church Fathers she is so fond of quoting certainly knew nothing about the genetics involved, so they would be equally incompetent witnesses to her argument on this point. From the beginning, we are talking about what is genetically human. There is no room for denial on this point!
But, from a Catholic perspective - which, she protests that she "practices ardently" - there's more! The dogma of the Immaculate Conception should, for any "Catholic," remove all doubt on the matter. By derivation from the definition of the dogma, Mary was conceived "immaculate," and, since this refers to the state of her soul, and since only human beings are conceived with souls where this could even be an issue, it follows that Mary, from the first moment of her conception in her mother's womb, was a "human being" in the eyes of God, composed of a body (however tiny at the time) and an immortal soul>. She was, then, "alive" in the fullest sense, and as "human" as Pelosi allegedly is now herself.
Again, the Immaculate Conception is a dogma binding on all of the Catholic faithful. Pelosi, as a Catholic, is obliged to embrace this, as well as its logical implications. She hasn't got a leg to stand on in here pitiful argumentation. She should be publicly excommunicated just on the basis of her Meet the Press comments alone, on the grounds that she has given scandal to potentially millions of Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, and injected patent falsehoods into the discussion for the pseudo-edification of many ignorant people who are subject to the misinformation she sputtered. Matthew 18:6-9 was surely spoken by Jesus with just this sort of a miserable excuse for a human being in mind! She needs prayers, but, for the present, and for her own spiritual medicine as well as that of countless of her "followers," she needs to be "shown the door" and bounced-out of the Church. With the upturned candles and the whole bit! And the Kennedy-Kerry-Biden wing along with her!
That will be the day! We have yet to see the Church have enough courage to publicly deny communion to any of these.
Otherwise, the Catechism is not worth the paper it's written on and the Church is no different then the Anglican Communion, where anything goes.
It is clear that the Church is not ready for a confrontation; rather she's "appealing" to these people to "avoid communion" on their own! How likely is that going to be?!?
As long as Pelosi and others like her can publicly disagree with the Vatican without any repercussions, the message to all Catholics is: believe and do whatever you feel is right; the Church will not censure you.
Sooner or later, empty threats and warnings become a laughing matter. If the Church is not ready to stand by her own teachings, how can she expect the faithful to stand by them?!?
I'm waiting...
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Doctors of the Church are not medical doctors who are Catholic.
(that confused me once too)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075a.htm
So the question is, will he talk to her while she is in Denver?
But it seems to me that the Dems at their convention yesterday were right about one thing: "we are at a crossroads" in this country. It will not be much longer that the Christian voice will even be heard in this country on moral issues, let alone acted upon. The secularists are gaining overall, despite what we might wish or think. It's true. I think some in the Church leadership can see the trends, and will no longer cozy-up to liberal Democrats to further certain aspects of their social agenda that are not reprehensible in themselves (even if usually ill-advised), when abortion, euthanasia, infanticide and human cloning are all advocated by leftist Democrats. They're beginning to wake up, and they're seeing that this "alliance of convenience" with the Left is gaining them nothing, it is making more and more rank-and-file Catholics get more jaundiced about Church leadership and overal relevancy, and the footdragging merely serves to help the Church spiral more and more out of even a generalized influence.
Now that Archbishop Burke is on his way to Rome, I think you will see the Vatican start lighting more fires under the American bishops who keep dragging their feet with respect to disciplining "Catholic" politicians who keep falling off the fence on the wrong side. I could be wrong, sure, but I really think things will start improving. If (God forbid!) Obama is president, and there is a serious Dem majority in both houses of Congress, the situation will quickly become so bad that any coddling of Democrats will be tantamount to apostasy. Few buishops want to be perceived in that way, and, in spite of their fuzzy-headedness, few of them, I trust, want God to perceive them that way!
I knew that netmilsmom, I just had the feeling Rush didn’t. See, how many “Doctors” are there, can’t remember.
Seems like there are a lot of Catholics interpreting Catholic tradition.
Not surprised with the above considering how many pro-murder Pols were given communion during the service presided over by the Pope.
Pols.... now there’s an entire religion in itself.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.