Circumstantial Confirmation of the First Vision through Reminiscences

BYU Studies ^ | 1969 | Richard Lloyd Anderson

[fproy2222]

Historical sources, like the people who make them, are rarely either completely perfect or totally unreliable. The bread and butter work of the historian is less the divining of bias than a careful reading of his documents to determine just what is said, whether his source is in a position to know the information related, and to what extent each one tells a partial or complete story. Because it is claimed that Joseph Smith’s account of the events surrounding his First Vision are not factual, the foregoing procedures must be applied to his own statements and to all other accounts that claim to relate first-hand information about his earliest activities

[fproy2222]

This is long, hard reading and worth it. Remember, come to your own conclusion.

The author:

Professor of history and religion at Brigham Young University, Dr. Anderson holds degrees in the fields of law, Greek, and ancient history and has concentrated his research on New Testament and the witnesses of the Book of Mormon.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Actually, there are multiple accounts that conflict - all
by Joseph Smith. Which one is the correct one? Or is it that
they are all bogus?

Based on everything else I know of the cult of mormonism,
I have come to believe it is all a bogus house of cards.

Why do you post this stuff on FR???

[fproy2222]

This is a follow on to:

First Vision accounts (of Joseph Smith)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2050682/posts

and

Joseph Smith’s First Vision: Fact or Fiction?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2050718/posts

[fproy2222]

Why do you post this stuff on FR???

+++++++++++++++++=

Because my study shows you conclusion wrong, and people have the right to see both sides and come to there own conclusion.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Great! Let’s show both sides then...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

We should also let people know about Joseph Smith’s connection to the Occult –

the source of his “vision”…

 

Mormonism's Link to Occultism

Both Joseph Smith and his father were involved in the occult practice known as "money digging." This involved special rituals and ceremonies which were performed for the purpose of obtaining buried treasure thought to be guarded by evil spirits. Accounts of money digging during the late 1700s and early 1800s are documented in Alan Taylor's article "Treasure Seeking in the American Northeast, 1780-1830", published in American Quarterly, 38 [Spring 1986], pp. 6-34. This article specifically mentions Joseph Smith, Sr., and Jr., on pages 10-12, giving examples of their money digging activities. LDS seminary teacher Grant Palmer also documents the Smith family's occult beliefs and practices, as well as those of their close associates, in his book An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, (SLC, Signature Books, 2002, pp. 175-195).

Joseph's Involvement in Occultism. Joseph Smith, Jr.'s role in the quest for treasure was especially important since he had a seer stone. Joseph would place this small, special rock in his hat then pull the hat up to his face to block out all light. By doing this he claimed he could see supernaturally, and would help those who were digging by locating the place where the treasure was buried and observing the spirits that were guarding it. Joseph Jr., himself admitted to being a money digger, though he said it was never very profitable for him (History of the Church, V. 3, p. 29). He and his father's money digging continued until at least 1826. On March 20th of that year Joseph was arrested, brought before a judge, and charged with being a "glass-looker" and a disorderly person. The laws at that time had what was known as the "Vagrant Act." It defined a disorderly person as one who pretended to have skill in the areas of palmistry, telling fortunes or discovering where lost goods might be found. According to court records Justice Neely determined that Joseph was guilty, though no penalty was administered, quite possibly because this was a first offense (Inventing Mormonism, Marquardt and Walters, SLC: Signature Books, 1994, pp. 74-75).

Occultism and the Start of Mormonism. Shortly after this Joseph discontinued money digging but kept his seer stone. It was with the seer stone that he claimed to both find the plates and later produce the Book of Mormon. This was known by early converts but has since been replaced with later accounts of an angelic visitor. This transition was aided by downplaying the fact that Moroni was a dead Indian warrior, and by referring to him as an angel. Former BYU professor and historian D. Michael Quinn writes:

During this period from 1827 to 1830, Joseph Smith abandoned the company of his former money-digging associates, but continued to use for religious purposes the brown seer stone he had previously employed in the treasure quest. His most intensive and productive use of the seer stone was in the translation of the Book of Mormon. But he also dictated several revelations to his associates through the stone (Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, D. Michael Quinn, Signature Books, SLC, 1987, p. 143.

This fact is supported by LDS author Richard S. Van Wagoner who found,

This stone, still retained by the First Presidency of the LDS Church, was the vehicle through which the golden plates were discovered and the medium through which their interpretation came (Sidney Rigdon: A Portrait of Religious Excess, Signature Books, SLC, 1994, p. 57).

Thus we see that historians have documented a continuity between Joseph's early occultic practices and the origins of Mormonism. This link extends to the development of the LDS Temple ceremony.

Occultic Parallels in the LDS Temple Ceremony. Historian D. Michael Quinn has done extensive research on rites and ancient mysteries related to occultism. He states,

By drawing only on authorized descriptions of the endowment by LDS leaders, I believe it is possible to see within historical context how the Mormon endowment reflected the ancient and occult mysteries far closer than Freemasonry (Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, p. 186).

Quinn then outlines the following ten essential characteristics common to both occult rituals and the Mormon Temple ceremonies:

• They are revealed by God from the beginning, but distorted through apostasy.
   
• They place an emphasis on the worthiness of initiates.
   
• They include washings and anointings, a new name and garments
   
• They emphasize vows of non-disclosure.
   
• There are both "lesser" and "greater" rituals.
   
• They feature presentation of the ritual through drama.
   
• They contain an oath of chastity requiring strict purity and virtue of the participants.
   
• They feature prominent use of the sun, moon and stars as key symbols.
   
• The purpose of the ritual is to assist mortals to attain to godhood.
   
• They employ titles and offices of prophets, priests and kings to those in leadership.

After presenting this material Quinn comments,

To be sure Masonic rituals also shared some similarities with the ancient mysteries, but these were not linked to any concept of heavenly ascent, which was fundamental to both the occult mysteries and to the Mormon endowment. Therefore, what similarities may exist between Freemasonry and Mormonism seem more appropriately to be regarded as superficial, whereas the ancient occult mysteries and the Mormon endowment manifest both philosophical and structural kinship. (Ibid., p. 190).

http://www.irr.org/MIT/masonry.html

[MHGinTN]

And while this apologist for the cult of mormonism keeps posting this strained effort, we might as well help to organize the background data on the various versions of smith's pretend visit from God the Father Almighty and Jesus Christ:

AND … a chart of the 'vision' versions:

 FIRST VISION:VARIOUS VERSIONS OF VISIONS  

Version Number  When  Published  Brief Description	Age  Year	Pillar   of  light	No. of  Person-  ages	Father  Present	Son  Present	Question:  Join What  Sect?	Remarks-References
1. Offical version,  written 1838,  first  Published 1842  (There are minor differences between the various source references, Ensign  Jan 1985, page 14)	14   1820	yes	2	yes  Both spoke	yes	Join none	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sophronia join the Presbyterian Church - JSH, pages 49-50, 1981 edition; Times & Seasons, March, April 1842; Ensign Jan. 1985, page 14; Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backamn, Bookcraft, 1971, 1980, Appendix C, page 160f
2. Dictated by Smith to F.G. Williams, Summer to Nov. 1832	14 or 15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw Lord, He  "spoke"	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix A, page 155f
3. Written by Smith, his 1832 diary, in his own hand	15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw the Lord Jesus  Christ	No question,  told sins forgiven, all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984, pages 24-26; ibid, Jan. 1985, page 11
4. Smith's diary of 1835, recorded by Warren Cowdery, Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Smith with Joshua	About  14	yes	One, then another like unto first	?	?  Second spoke, saw  many angels	No questions, told sins forgiven, Jesus is Son	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appen. B
5. Letter form Smith to John Wentworth, editor of Chicago Democrat	none	no	2	?  They spoke	?	No Question	Joseph Smith's  First Vision, Appendix D; Ensign, Jan 1985, page 16; Times & Seasons, Vol  3, pages 706-707, March 1, 1842
6. Early church leaders Brigham Young, G.A.Smith, John Taylor	15	no	1  Saw an angel, and asked the angel	no	no	Join none	See Journal of Discourses,   2:17; 18:239; 13:77, 78; 20:167; 12:333, 334.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Why should we beleive Joseph Smith.

Why not the vision of Anna Lee of the Shakers. She saw an angel standing on a rooftop with a book and scroll in it’s hand.
Or E.G. White’s visions of the Throne of God.

Or O.L. Jagger’s claim of God appearing to Jaggers’ wife at Abraham’s Well in Israel. God told them that the ONLY true place of worship was at Jaggers’ Golden Alter in Los Angeles.
As you can see, so called “Prophets” are a dime a dozen.
So, what makes Smith unique? especially since there are so many proofs he was an out and out fraud.

[fproy2222]

Study what they say about themselves[not what others say about them], then come to your own conclusions.

Then ask Father if you are correct.

[fproy2222]

And while this apologist for the cult of Mormonism keeps posting this strained effort, we might as well help to organize the background data on the various versions of smith's pretend visit from God the Father Almighty and Jesus Christ:

++++++++++++++++++++

Check this website that shows the wrongness of this cartoon.

It is another long article, but then it addresses many of the accusations.

Joseph Smith's First Vision – A Harmony
Arranged by Elden J. Watson
1983

http://eldenwatson.net/harmony.htm

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Study what they say about themselves[not what others say about them], then come to your own conclusions.

Then ask Father if you are correct.****

I’m just a little bit too pragmatic to trust in feelings. My fertilizer meter is set very low. That goes for Spam, junk science and false religions. You aught to try it! it works.
But if you did you would not be a Mormon, or scientologist, or so called pagan, or wiccan, or be taken in by certain TV “preachers”.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Check this website that shows the wrongness of this cartoon.”

Not a cartoon. Those are actual photos take during each
separate vision. That is why it is black and white.

[MHGinTN]

Bwahahahaha, do ya suppose the gang of seventy would like to buy the originals?

[count-your-change]

Long and hard reading, yes. Two out of three isn’t bad but neither is it good enough to be convincing.
When the story teller is not trustworthy then it really doesn’t matter how many people he told his story to or how many repeat it. And no amount of detail larded study will rehabilitate Smith.
If someone examines his false teachings, “they’re outsiders”, If a Mormon does, “That’s not official”, If Smith’s or Young’s own words are used then it’s, “A prophet is only a prophet when he acts as one”.
So when you say “come to your own conclusion” it has to be on the basis of evidence you furnish not what exists.
No thanks.

[fproy2222]

I’m just a little bit too pragmatic to trust in feelings.

+++++++++++++=

Sounds to me that you only believe in scholarly study and not personal guidance from Father.

[Elsie]

 

Because my study shows you conclusion wrong, and people have the right to see both sides and come to there own conclusion.

 

It's too bad that Joseph Smith did NOT follow your advice!

 

If he had, he would have KNOWN that his two (?) Messengers were delivering info from Satan.

---

 

 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
 7.  which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
 9.  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (niv)

 

 

 

ANYBODY???

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (niv)

Like THESE guys??

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

 

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---

Ephesians 2:1-2

   As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,  in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

---

---

KJV 1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

KJV 1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

 

 KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[Elsie]

Study what they say about themselves[not what others say about them], then come to your own conclusions.

Then ask Father if you are correct.

Once again you illustrate quite well why Mormonism is NOT Christianity:

NIV Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

[Elsie]

It is another long article, but then it addresses many of the accusations.

Addresses??

Many?

How many are actually REFUTED?

[Elsie]

All I ever got to keep was the contact prints!

[Elsie]

Sounds to me that you only believe in scholarly study and not personal guidance from Father.

Sounds like he believes the BIBLE and not some 14 yo, ignorant farmboy from New Yawk who didn't even TELL people about his 'vision'(s?) until later in life.