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To: Snurple
According to church rules, a penitent can seek the indulgence for himself or a deceased person by going to confession, receiving communion, distancing himself from sinfulness, praying for the pope's intentions...

Eph. 2:4-10

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

God's Word is clear - we are not saved by works. Good works are an effect of our salvation, not a cause. It is folly to think we can earn salvation through sporadic good works in a sea of our sinful nature.

16 posted on 07/24/2008 7:18:09 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: Liberty1970
Better do some more reading.

"So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way? For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." James 2:17-26

23 posted on 07/24/2008 7:27:29 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Liberty1970

You wrote:

“God’s Word is clear - we are not saved by works. Good works are an effect of our salvation, not a cause. It is folly to think we can earn salvation through sporadic good works in a sea of our sinful nature.”

Indulgences are about grace - not works. They are also about true repentence - not “sporadic good works”. It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about.


31 posted on 07/24/2008 7:44:32 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Liberty1970

1 Corinthians 3:14–15: “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Purgatory is the saving through fire part of this passage from Paul’s letter to Corinth.

An indulgence is nothing more than reaching a state where we have 1) Asked God’s forgiveness for our sinfullness via reconcilliation, 2) Participate in Mass via Communion, 3) Pray for the Pope’s intentions (an Our Father for the Pope is a norm), 4) Be free from all attachment to sin.

In my opinion there is much less hocus pocus about an indulgence and its impact on one’s travel to heaven than the hocus pocus where someone in a state of sin dies and poof goes to heaven anyway.


41 posted on 07/24/2008 1:34:43 PM PDT by CTK YKC
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