Can I get some roadies, too? I mean, I guess that would mean I'd have to go somewhere and even do something when I got there.
Maybe I need to think this over.
How many roadies could I fit on my geezerscooter?
Posted on 07/23/2008 2:47:21 PM PDT by Pyro7480
When Gov. Alfred E. Smith ran for president in 1928, his candidacy was derailed in large part by anti-Catholic prejudice. It has been nearly 48 years since John F. Kennedy became the first (and so far only) Roman Catholic president, but experts say that anti-Catholic sentiment — much of it originating in, or as a response to, immigrants in New York — remains an enduring force in American culture.
That was the consensus of a panel assembled at the Museum of the City of New York on Tuesday night to consider the question, “Is Anti-Catholicism Dead?”
...The Rev. Richard John Neuhaus — a leading conservative intellectual, a former Lutheran pastor and the editor of the leading Catholic journal First Things — offered a surprising view on the question.
“To be a Catholic is not to be refused positions of influence in our society,” he said. “Indeed, one of the most acceptable things is to be a bad Catholic, and in the view of many people, the only good Catholic is a bad Catholic.”
...He added that anti-Catholicism was as likely to come from the left — sometimes from commentators who believe that a “threatening theological insurgency is engineered and directed by Catholics,” with evangelical Protestants merely as the movement’s “foot soldiers.”
(Excerpt) Read more at cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com ...
I think this occasion calls for wine.
I suppose I can see how the differences in how Protestants and Catholics view what salvation means creates issues in these discussions.
Wine?
Amen!
Very good quote from His Holiness.
Indeed it is the obstinate sustained denial of the truths of the Catholic Church after they have been explained to him, — the “pertinacia”, or what I referred to as anti-Catholicism — that makes one a heretic and therefore puts his soul in danger of loss. “Cultural Protestantism” — partaking of the salvific grace of the Catholic Church through the darkened lense of a Protestant community of faith that one is naturally acculturated to, does not carry the same danger as heresy.
That is not an excuse to remain a Protestant, of course, but an important reminder that we should not lose hope for those who are separated from the Church while holding no malice toward her.
I think it’s important to keep discussions on topic, don’t you? Lowe’s Foods has several tasty South African reds at a substantial discount this week.
I enjoy the reds: red wine, Red Steagall, and Red Simpson.
Woo Hoo!
You’re obviously a right-thinking individual with a great potential for longevity. Just stay away from my mango-habanero sauce ...
I don’t know.
Certainly cutting oneself off from the Church Christ founded would be grave matter: that is, a serious objective wrong. This is something you, Alex Murphy, would, I think, agree with, if you were to interpret “Church” as “those who profess Christ as their Lord and Savior” or some such definition, prescinding from the question of whether the Catholic Church is this Church.
Wouldn't you?
But “grave matter” is not, per se, moral sin --- the kind of sin that sends one to everlasting perdition --- because that requires not only "grave matter" (an objectively serious offense). but also(1) knowledge of the nature and scope of the offense, and (2) full consent of the will.
On the one hand, we are told that "for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment," and "anyone who says to his brother, You fool! is in danger of hellfire" (Matthew 5:22). And on the other hand, as Jesus was being tortured to death, he prayed that those who murdered Him would be forgiven, because "they know not what they do."
I bring up these verses to show that, on the one hand, something we think to be comparatively trivial could lead to hellfire, while on the other hand, murdering the Savior of the World could be forgiven --- because only God can judge the heart, can see truly what people knew, what they didn't know, what they intended and what they didn't intend.
Therefore it is presumptuous, and a sin against both justice and charity, to assume that anybody who is not a visible member of the Catholic Church is damned. The Church teaches very plainly that this is an error: for instance, it’s just this issue that precipitated one of the few public excommunications in the history of the U.S. Catholic Church, namely, the excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney of the Archdiocese of Boston, in 1953 who taught, erroneously and obstinately, that Protestants are damned.
If you go to the Catechism at this paragraph and read on a bit for context, you can see that the Church does not damn or demonize anybody: that is in the hands of God, Who alone is Judge.
I am simply explaining the meaning of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus”, often in response to hastily worded questions.
The distinction between informed rejection of the Church, — heresy, and the Protestantism based on cultural inertia and indifferentism, is indeed very important and I tried to convey it in simple terms in all these posts that to my surprise stirred a controversy.
In all of them I strove to make two points:
- conversion of the heart to the truths of the Catholic Church, albeit in an inartuculated way and at the hour of death is necessary for salvation, as well as, of course, good works in obedience to the Natural Law;
- formal conversion and self-identification with the visible Catholic Church is highly advisable for it greatly facilitates the above-mentioned conversion, but is not absolutely necessary.
I don’t think we disagree in the essentials.
I invite y'all to check out my husband's shapenote website, called Old Fields Singers. And while you're there, click on the link (on the left) called "Disclaimer." You'll see why.
Fa So La!
Consider, for example, the Orthodox. Often they are quite hostile to the visible Catholic Church: they don’t like our praxis, they think we allowed ourselves doctrinal innovations, — stuff like that. But a good obedient to his bishop Orthodox is in fact converted to the truths of the Catholic Church; to the extent that he dislikes Rome at all — and many Orthodox love Rome without fully embracing it — he follows his bishop and his historical bias. No mortal sin of rejection of the Christ’s Church has been committed; in fact, he lives and dies filled with desire of unity in truth as he knows it.
Contrast that with so common among the Protestants, especially of the Evangelical persuasion, cardinal rejection of the very purpose of the Christ’s Church: her sacramental priesthood, her apostolic episcopacy, her sacred deposit of patristic faith. Here the claim of unfortunate acculturation barely works, since so much in Evangelical preaching is expressly and substantively anti-Catholic, while Catholic catechism is these days available to all. At the very least we have a mortal sin of intentionally remaining in ignorance. When a semi-literate anti-Catholic slander is taken as truth, while the Catholic apologetics are offered and ignored, the invincible ignorance defense vanishes altogether.
Beautiful singing!
The most interesting aspect and one of the few useful things to come out of all this back and forth over the months and years here is the WIDELY different vocabularies and "world-views" (for want of a better term) between our sides.
I want to be a groupie! Can I have a decoder ring? Can I have a shirt? I want a shirt. Oh, and I have 4 grandgroupies for you! ;0)
Can I get some roadies, too? I mean, I guess that would mean I'd have to go somewhere and even do something when I got there.
Maybe I need to think this over.
How many roadies could I fit on my geezerscooter?
I remember the first time a Protestant asked if I was 'saved'. I was a bit puzzled, and said something like 'I hope to be.' Then he asked if I had been 'born again'. Now I was really confused and asked him what he was talking about. Eventually we established communication to the point of (vaguely) understanding each other. Naturally as a Catholic I live 'in the sure and certain hope of the resurrection.'
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