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To: PAR35
Just on 1, since I think we're good on 2:

Well, Anglicanism doesn't really have a fixed teaching on the Eucharist - some certainly teach the symbolic understanding, others don't. So, we can add some of them to the total. And, although I think we'll get into this when you come back, from my vantage point, I'd argue Calvinism teaches the symbolic understanding - however, like I said, that was point 3, so we'll work on that in a bit.

I don't know enough about Presbyterians or Methodists to really have an opinion, but I'd guess they have a more symbolic understanding. And I certainly think "Purpose Driven" groups have a symbolic understanding. Anyway, I look forward to continuing this conversation.

20 posted on 07/16/2008 6:00:13 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum

No, Calvinists hold to a real, but spiritual rather than physical presence. I was unfamiliar with the Methodist view, so I looked it up. It looks like they actually are closer to Calvin than I would have guessed.

“The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather is a sacrament of our redemption by Christ’s death; insomuch that, to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the bread which we break is a partaking of the body of Christ; and likewise the cup of blessing is a partaking of the blood of Christ.

...

The body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten in the Supper, only after a heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is faith.

...”

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1651

(This being an Ecuminical thread, I supplied the two paragraphs which deal positively with their view, and omitted the pair that speak negatively of the beliefs of another communion. )

So I’ll not concede either the Methodists nor the Presbyterians to the Baptist view.

3. Given the rules of the thread, I’ll not comment on the Catholic view, only the Reformed.

Yes, he has the ‘sign and seal’ part right, but my complaint is that he didn’t go far enough. It is more than a sign or seal, it is also a means of grace in Reformed theology as the believer receives spiritual nourishment.

4. “If we have the capability to respond, mustn’t we exercise that capability?”

That would be the “I” in TULIP - Irresistable Grace.

We are dead in our sins, God by his grace sends the Holy Spirit to quicken us (thus my earlier comment on Grace not being dependent in any manner upon us), and draws us to him.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Romans 8:30)


21 posted on 07/16/2008 6:41:13 PM PDT by PAR35
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