Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Five Errors that Arise from Christ-Replacements
Monergism.Com ^ | John Hendryx

Posted on 07/12/2008 1:37:07 AM PDT by Gamecock

Jesus Christ: The Interpretive Key to the Scripture
With Five Examples of Doctrinal Errors that Arise When this Key is not Used.

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." (John 5:39, 40)

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" - (1 Tim 2:5)

"The Scriptures should be read with the aim of finding Christ in them. Whoever turns aside from this object, even though he wears himself out all his life in learning, he will never reach the knowledge of the truth." - John Calvin

Almost all errors and inconsistencies in our understanding of Bible texts occur when our interpretation is less than Christ-centered. This is foundational. Unless our study, however diligent, leads us to see that all Scripture points to Jesus Christ, our study is in vain. The importance of the Bible (OT & NT) is that it testifies about Jesus Christ (John 1:43-45, Acts 3:18, Acts 17:2-3, 2 Tim 3:14-15,1 Pet 1:10-12, Rom 1:1-3, 16:25-27, Luke 24:25-27 & 44-46).

Jesus never condemned a Pharisee for taking Moses too seriously. They take him far less seriously than they should. For Jesus says, "If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for He write of Me. But if you don't believe His writings, how will you believe My words. Your accuser is Moses." (John 5:46). So to understand Moses is to come to know Christ when He is revealed. Likewise, Abraham saw Jesus' day and was glad, the Bible testifies. And "...foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." (Gal)

Here are some examples of specific doctrinal errors that fail to take into account the above biblical principles ... These are produced by an interpretative grid or presupposition that arises from Christless or less-than-Christocentric views of Scripture. In the following, I wish to give 5 examples of current popular, but erroneous, interpretations, that err simply because they fail to see the centrality of Jesus Christ in their understanding:

1) The False Unbiblical Assertion that Salvation can be Lost
The claim by some that a Christian can actually lose his or her salvation is a prime example of reading Christ out of the text, because the focus becomes your own moral ability rather than Christ. Some erroneously believe that a Christian, after being saved by Christ, can make certain choices that will lead to the loss of their adoption and justification, and thus, their salvation in Christ. In other words, they must, by their own effort, or with the Spirit's help, maintain their just standing before God. With such a view, Christ is not sufficient to save completely. Such a doctrine should immediately make us think of Paul's warning in Galatians: "Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" (Gal 3:3) But why is Paul so stern as to call them foolish? Because they have forgotten that Christ and Christ alone has saved them. To think that we can add to Christ's perfect work is to utterly misapprehend the Gospel at its core. For, we ask, is it Jesus or something else which is sufficient to carry you to the end? Any addition to Jesus Christ is to believe that justification is found in something else has forgotten about the centrality of Christ.

So we ask in relation to this doctrine, is it Christ who saves us, or does He merely assist us so we may save ourselves? The warning passages in Hebrews actually warn against this very error. They start by pointing out that Jesus is superior to the angels, to Moses and to the Sacrificial System. The warnings of falling away are actually warnings about going back to something inferior to Christ, like the sacrificial system which only pointed to Christ. To read that a particular sin can make us lose our salvation, is thus, to utterly forget what the context of the Text in Hebrews itself is. So the assertion that a Christian can lose salvation is the first error that we have spotted that arises because Christ was not seen as the ultimate interpretive presupposition. Some other ultimate presupposition guided our exposition.

2) Synergism
Synergism is the error that affirms that the natural man can cooperate with God in the regeneration process (the new birth) ...that an unregenerate person has the moral capacity to embrace the Gospel apart from the work of the Spirit changing the heart. Again, remember what our interpretive Key to the Bible is? Jesus Christ. So, in relation to regeneration and conversion, when the gospel is preached, what makes people to differ in their response to it? Does Jesus Christ make us differ or does something else? This "something else" may take various forms; it may be something native to the human constitution (i.e. Pelagianism) or something alien yet universal (i.e. Arminianism)? In either case, the point is that it is not Christ that makes the difference. Anyone who claims that the difference arises from one of these something-else's has failed to see first our hopelessness as fallen creatures apart from Christ and second the exclusive sufficiency of Christ's saving work. If I am different than my neighbor because of something other than Jesus Christ, then Christ, whatever role he may play, cannot be central to my understanding of salvation. He is only partly responsible for it. It is the grace we have in Christ that saves, and nothing in addition to it.

3) Four-Point Calvinism
Four-point Calvinism fails the test of Christ-centered interpretation because this view tends to see the TULIP as an abstraction. But the TULIP only works when we see Christ at its center. Consider the TULIP as a chiasm with the "L" at the top of the pyramid. It is Jesus Christ which makes sense of all the doctrines of grace. Four-point Calvinists who reject Limited Atonement but embrace irresistible grace must consider this: Irresistible grace is not some abstract doctrine but must be seen in relation to Jesus Christ, specially in relation to the grace purchased by Christ upon the cross. The Spirit of Christ illuminates, regenerates and effectually brings to faith his elect. And this enabling, effectual grace is, from first to last, Christ-centered. It does not come out of a void, nor from some hidden source of grace in God the Father. Therefore Christ must have died for the elect so as to purchase that grace in a way – a redemptive way – that he did not die for the non-elect. That is why we often call it particular redemption. Irresistible grace is one of the redemptive benefits purchased by Jesus Christ ... and it was never granted to the non-elect nor intended for them. Four point Calvinism not only fails the test of Christocentricity but fails to acknowledge that the Trinity always works in harmony. The Father elects a particular people for himself, Christ dies to secure their redemption and the Holy Sprit unites the same to Christ applying the benefits of Christ's redemption to them. I believe that until Jesus Christ is seen as central to the TULIP then four-pointers will continue to reject the christocentric nature of the Scripture and the gospel is partly distorted as a result.

4) Purgatory
Roman Catholics believe in Purgatory, which again accents their belief that Christ is not sufficient to save completely. Rather then, we must work off our sins after death for 1000's of years until it is paid. Where is Christ in all this? Was His work insufficient to cover their sins completely and once for all?

5) Emerging Church (Jesus as Example but not Savior)
The emerging church is another belief system which fails the test of Christocentricity. Although they often pride themselves on being "red-letter" Christians who only want to follow Jesus, most of the time they fail to emphasize any accompanying need for Christ as Savior. The result is that they are preaching only half a Christ with such an overemphasis on the teaching of the kingdom, that they have forgotten to teach people how to get into the kingdom to begin with. In other words, there is great effort to teach Christ as a moral example for us while there is little or no vital teaching that he is Savior. The result of refusing Christ as savior has created a church movement that is highly moralistic and graceless. In the 1980s I remember the Lordship controversy where some were teaching that we could receive Christ as savior but not Lord. Now in the emerging church we have the opposite error: those who want to yield to Christ's kingdom Lordship but the refusal to yield to him as Savior. Of course if one truly yielded to Christ's Lordship they would believe in him as Savior as well. But Few things could be more arrogant than to read the Sermon on the Mount and fail to see our moral inability to live up to it and the consequent necessity of a bloody atonement to bear the punishment for our rebellion.

We cannot bifurcate Jesus into two halves. The gospel is not an either/or supposition where we can see Jesus as a moral example but not see our spiritual bankruptcy and desperate need of His saving grace. This is a failure to confess that Christ lived the life we should have lived and died the death we deserve. The gospel is first declarative - that is, it is news about something God has already done for us. It is not, "preach the gospel, use words if necessary." The declaration of God's accomplishment for us will indeed make us want to live for him due to joy, but we cannot make an idol out of our self-salvation project or simply become "Jesus followers" without seeing we can do nothing, including believe the gospel and be subjects of his kingdom, apart from his saving work. As a recent example of this problem: A friend of mine attends an emerging church in our area was telling me about a baptism where two girls confessed their newly found faith. They spoke glowingly about how the life of Jesus as a model way to live but spoke nothing of the fact that they were broken sinners justly deserving the wrath of God save for Christ's mercy alone. My friend went to ask the elders about this after the baptism, and in following up with these girls, they discovered that they had not understood this aspect at all. Listen, if any person does not understand this basic, foundational truth of our sin and Jesus Christ as Savior from God's wrath then they have not understood the gospel, period. I am afraid most emerging churches commit this grievous error, and while there may be true Christians in them, the teaching is largely unChristian. Unless we renounce all self-sufficiency and recognize that we deserve God's just wrath save for Christ's mercy, arrogance in our own ability and merit can only result. But God's wrath for man's sin is denied by false teachers like Rob Bell with teachings like his popular "the god's are not angry tour". The error of the emerging church is that it emphasizes what we can do for God, not what He has already done for us in Christ. But the gospel is not advice about how to live but it is news of One who did for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Each of these above five errors (and many others like them) occurs when the our hermeneutic - our ultimate presupposition - is not Jesus Christ.

Fact is, it is the doctrine of 'grace alone' in Jesus which enables us to see that we are no better than our unbelieving skeptical neighbor - because we are just like them. Salvation by grace alone because of what Jesus has done for us has set us apart (with nothing to boast of in ourselves) and it enables us to minister to others because we have just about everything in common with other sinners like ourselves. We are beggars leading other beggars to bread, that is, the bread called Jesus. Speaking about Christocentric ministry Tim Keller says: "The gospel of grace leads us to be: humble, without moral superiority knowing we were saved by grace [alone], gracious, remembering our former deserved spiritual poverty, and respectful of believing poor Christians as brothers and sisters from whom to learn. The gospel alone can bring "knowledge workers" into a sense of humble respect for and solidarity with the poor ... All problems, personal or social come from a failure to use the gospel [Jesus as central] in a radical way. All pathologies in the church and all its ineffectiveness comes from a failure to use the gospel in a radical way. Avoiding the excesses of the dispensationalist, charismatic, or mainline liberal churches (who all lose the balance of the gospel truth in different ways), a gospel-centered church will break stereotypes and shine brightly in the city."

J.W. Hendryx


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: christ; monergism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-32 next last

1 posted on 07/12/2008 1:37:09 AM PDT by Gamecock
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; AZhardliner; ...

2 posted on 07/12/2008 1:38:31 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Many dear brothers and sisters fail to realize that all of Scripture is of Christ.

As a simple example from my youth, the liberal mainline church that I grew up in taught us that in Genesis 1:26 (Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.) the use of the word Us conveys God's majesty. In this case, we were wrongly taught, God is speaking in the third person, like royalty might do.

It wasn't until much later in life that I realized the use of the word us refers to the Trinity.

3 posted on 07/12/2008 1:48:20 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

If you blaspheme, you can lose your salvation.


4 posted on 07/12/2008 3:25:29 AM PDT by joesbucks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: joesbucks

Chapter XVII
Of the Perseverance of the Saints

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.[1]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;[2] upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ,[3] the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them,[4] and the nature of the covenant of grace:[5] from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.[6]

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;[7] and, for a time, continue therein:[8] whereby they incur God’s displeasure,[9] and grieve His Holy Spirit,[10] come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,[11] have their hearts hardened,[12] and their consciences wounded;[13] hurt and scandalize others,[14] and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.[15]

[1] PHI 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. 2PE 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. JOH 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 1JO 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1PE 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

[2] 2TI 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. JER 31:3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

[3] HEB 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. HEB 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. ROM 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. JOH 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. LUK 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. HEB 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[4] JOH 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 1JO 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1JO 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[5] JER 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

[6] JOH 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 2TH 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 1JO 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[7] MAT 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. 72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. 74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

[8] PSA 51 (the title) To the chief muscian, A psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

[9] ISA 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. 9 Be not wroth very sore, O Lord, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people. 2SA 11:27 And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord.

[10] EPH 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[11] PSA 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. REV 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. SON 5:2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night. 3 I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them? 4 My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him. 6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.

[12] ISA 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants’ sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. MAR 6:52 For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

[13] PSA 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. 4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

[14] 2SA 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

[15] PSA 89:31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 1CO 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


5 posted on 07/12/2008 3:46:51 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: All

Limited Atonement.

Christ is not limited. Calvin is.


6 posted on 07/12/2008 3:54:36 AM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
" So we ask in relation to this doctrine, is it Christ who saves us, or does He merely assist us so we may save ourselves? The warning passages in Hebrews actually warn against this very error. They start by pointing out that Jesus is superior to the angels, to Moses and to the Sacrificial System. The warnings of falling away are actually warnings about going back to something inferior to Christ, like the sacrificial system which only pointed to Christ. To read that a particular sin can make us lose our salvation, is thus, to utterly forget what the context of the Text in Hebrews itself is. So the assertion that a Christian can lose salvation is the first error that we have spotted that arises because Christ was not seen as the ultimate interpretive presupposition. Some other ultimate presupposition guided our exposition. "

This is one thing that the Armenians fail to grasp..... it is not OUR doing or works that save us ( even though, God has good works for us to do after we get saved for his good pleasure, but, it does not pertain to our salvation ).


Who's salvation are you trusting in ? Christ's ? or your own Salvation ( a different Gospel ) ?
To trust in your own " Good Works and own Righteousness " for your salvation is to trust in a man made gospel, therefore, trampling underfoot the blood of Christ.
To trust in another man made gospel is to declare that Christ's blood it is NOT sufficient enough to save, less than the blood of bulls and goats.
Therefore, to deny the [power] of Christ's blood to save you from all your sin, you are crucifying Christ afresh every time you sin and ask God for forgiveness because you believe that it is not sufficient to save you from ALL your sins

Why do you think John the Baptist called us to repent in the Gospels ? for us to repent ( to have a change of mind regarding our attitude towards God in regards to how we try to seek our own salvation ).
To repent is to repent from trying to save ourselves, to live in our own self righteousness..... and GOD tells's us that our own righteousness is not good enough, it is as filfy rags, and neither can man ever keep the law.

Dead works, is trying to save yourself, dead works is trusting in your own righteousness.
Christ's blood is sufficient to save ALL who come to him... once and for all he died.
You say ? every time you sin, we must repent of every single sin we do, how about the sins we forget ?
Did you know ? that trusting in your own good works to save you is the sin of Pride and Rebellion ? .. it's a sad state for those who live like that, that they have to keep going around in a revolving door, because, for them to profess that they have to live and trust in their own selfrighteusness, and good works to save, is a prideful sin, therefore, when you trust in your own good works and righteousness, you have to repent ( in your own believing in YOUR own man made gospel ) every time you trust in yourself to save you from your sins.

In the Gosples, the messege of Christ, God is basically saying " GET OVER YOURSELVES, IT'S THE SIN OF PRIDE, and believe on the gosple of the GOOD NEWS " the gosple of grace, GOD's saving hand, and not yours.

Hebrews 6

1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2. Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. And this will we do, if God permit.
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 posted on 07/12/2008 4:01:48 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
" Unless we renounce all self-sufficiency and recognize that we deserve God's just wrath save for Christ's mercy, arrogance ( and ignorance ) in our own ability and merit can only result."

Oh yeah ? by the way ?
Those ( Works based salvation ) believers ?
Before I hear all your criticism of those who believe in a ( Grace based salvation )
.... we are VERY AWARE of sin ....
You don't need to remind us of our sins, we are aware because the Holy Spirit convicts us of it.
Were are very aware of our sins.
Why do you think ? we came to Christ in the first place ? to save us from our sins.
We ( grace based ) believers .. we , ( sin not ) ( or at least we try not to sin (
but, the Bible says, and if any man does sin, we have a advocate with the father who is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and cleans us from all unrighteousness ) because Christ is our righteousness ).
We do not sin, or at least try to not sin, and obey God because we love him, not because we are trying to obtain our salvation because of good works.
All those ( works based ) believers ?
Do you sin every day ? ( I am sure you do, because the Bible says so )
As far as the Bible is concern ? you DO sin every day.
Can you account for every sin ? ( if you live by the law, you MUST obey every aspect of the law, and be judged by the law, even if you break the smallest part of the law ).
Now ? once again ? do you sin every day ? and can you account for every single sin that you do ? or the sin in your minds and heart ?
How about the sin of Pride and Rebellion in your hearts every day when you trust in yourselves ? the sin you sin in your hearts by trusting in your own selfcinfident of saving yourselves ? it's a revolving door, once you trust in your own selves, it the sin of pride and rebellion, then you have to REPENT all over again, and again.
As far as the Bible is concerned, it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to keep the law perfectly.
It does not matter how hard you try, we all sin every day.
I know, I know, some maybe getting angry because their pride is showing up, but, it's the same pride that came out of the Pharisees also when Jesus told them that they were self rightness.....
8 posted on 07/12/2008 4:50:23 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: streetpreacher; Ottofire; marinamuffy; flynmudd; twonie; Peace4EarthNow; Nightshift; WileyPink; ...

Baptist ping


9 posted on 07/12/2008 5:06:52 AM PDT by WKB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

**** They spoke glowingly about how the life of Jesus as a model way to live but spoke nothing of the fact that they were broken sinners justly deserving the wrath of God save for Christ’s mercy alone. ***

This sounds like somthing I was raised in (and escaped from!) I was taught that Christ “was our elder bother to teach us how to walk.”


10 posted on 07/12/2008 7:49:49 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: joesbucks
If you blaspheme, you can lose your salvation.

No, blasphemy is no different that a violation of one of the other 9 of the 10 Commandments. (See James 2).

Now if you are talking about something different - blaspheming the Holy Spirit - (See Mark 3:28-29 for the distinction) then you are talking of someone who has never been saved, and is likely not one of the elect.

11 posted on 07/12/2008 8:24:15 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr; Gamecock
If God wanted every man to be saved, every man would be saved.

He's God. He gets what He wants because He already has it.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" -- Isaiah 46:10


"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6


"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:5-10

Faith, like all God's gracious gifts, is the evidence of our salvation by Jesus Christ. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Grace saves, and grace alone.

12 posted on 07/12/2008 9:45:16 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Prophet in the wilderness
In the Gospels, the message of Christ, God is basically saying " GET OVER YOURSELVES, IT'S THE SIN OF PRIDE, and believe on the gosple of the GOOD NEWS " the gosple of grace, GOD's saving hand, and not yours.

Amen. As you say so clearly, the sin of pride is at the heart of all attempts at a works-based salvation.

"And this will we do, if God permit." -- Hebrews 6:3

AMEN!

13 posted on 07/12/2008 9:51:48 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr

“Almost all errors and inconsistencies in our understanding of Bible texts occur when our interpretation is less than Christ-centered”

This is the part that struck me, how can there be any inconsistencies if the interpretation is given to the person by the Holy Spirit and therefore can’t be full of errors because the Holy Spirit contains only Truth?

Once saved always saved unless one was never really saved and just thought they were? Holy Spirit led interpretation of Scripture unless it is wrong and filled with inconsistencies and error? The Bible alone, as long as you interpret it right? And then we have the question: Right according to whom?


14 posted on 07/12/2008 10:46:53 AM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: tiki; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; Quix; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; DungeonMaster; roamer_1; ...
how can there be any inconsistencies if the interpretation is given to the person by the Holy Spirit and therefore can’t be full of errors because the Holy Spirit contains only Truth?

That's a valid question, and one which Catholics must ask themselves as often as Protestants. The answer, however, is different. For the Catholic, the RCC is led by the Holy Spirit and answers all questions through the church. For the Protestant, the believer who makes up the church is led by the Holy Spirit who answers all questions through the Scriptures.

If one reads the Scriptures, one finds the Scriptures to be self-authenticating because, by faith, a person understands the Scriptures to be the word of God.

No one gets everything 100% correct. And yet the Holy Spirit does instruct Christ's flock. By rightly dividing the word of God, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, by praying for guidance, the truth of God is revealed to men according to His word and will.

"Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures" -- Luke 24:45

The fact that we don't understand everything perfectly is not evidence that our faith is insufficient. The Scriptures tell us that everything we need to know regarding our salvation can be found within them.

"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:14-17

That's why Protestants spend so much time discussing the Bible and God's intent. It's what we're supposed to be doing.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God." -- Matthew 22:29

Catholics struggle to perfect themselves, to have every sin accounted for before death, to literally make themselves holy.

Protestants know this is impossible. Therefore, the only perfection that saves anyone is the perfection of Christ, graciously imputed to the sinner.

And the understanding of this fact brings with it the sanctification of the Holy Spirit -- just exactly as much as God ordains.

This is an excellent essay, Gamecock. Very pertinent to our discussions of who saves us and how. Thanks for posting it.

15 posted on 07/12/2008 1:01:52 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks for the ping to another high quality post.


16 posted on 07/12/2008 1:40:34 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg
If one reads the Scriptures, one finds the Scriptures to be self-authenticating because, by faith, a person understands the Scriptures to be the word of God.

Self-authenticating, that is a funny phrase, so does the reader self authenticate or does the word itself authenticate? If the Word self authenticates then the interpretation would be plainly understandable to all who studied by faith.

By rightly dividing...

And when there are 100s of interpretations of Scripture, which is the one that is rightly divided?

The fact that we don't understand everything perfectly is not evidence that our faith is insufficient.

I wouldn't call it insufficient faith, I would call it insufficient theology.

The Scriptures tell us that everything we need to know regarding our salvation can be found within them.

And the Scripture is right but leaning unto one's own understanding leads to 100s of errors.

That's why Protestants spend so much time discussing the Bible and God's intent. It's what we're supposed to be doing.

That is why Catholics submit to the Apostolic Deposit of Faith of which the Scripture is a very important part of our theology.

Catholics struggle to perfect themselves, to have every sin accounted for before death, to literally make themselves holy.

Catholics KNOW that they are only perfected through Christ, they realize that they can never perfect themselves. Yes, we ask forgiveness for our sins, you mean we're not supposed to? Oh, yeah, you are a Calvinist, you can sin until eternity calls and zap, there you are in Heaven, no matter if you violate every God-given law?

17 posted on 07/12/2008 1:59:52 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg

Your answer is excellent as well, Dr. E. Bravo.


18 posted on 07/12/2008 5:24:27 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Prophet in the wilderness

Excellent scriptures. My husband was a Catholic for over 50 years. When He finally came to the know the Lord as his Savior, he said it was like a load lifted off his shoulders to know he didn’t have to wonder any more if he was going to have eternal life with Christ. He said it was such a bondage to have to wonder if this next sin wouldn’t be confessed and he’d die in his sin. Whew.


19 posted on 07/12/2008 5:54:00 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: tiki

Really good questions.


20 posted on 07/12/2008 6:58:09 PM PDT by Judith Anne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-32 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson