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The Fellowship of St. Gregory the Great
The Telegraph, U.K. ^ | July 10, 2008 | Damian Thompson

Posted on 07/10/2008 5:54:07 AM PDT by CTrent1564

The Fellowship of St Gregory the Great is the provisional title of the organisation of ex-Anglican clergy who plan to stay with their flocks once they become Roman Catholics. The Anglicans, led by the "flying" bishops of Ebbsfleet and Richborough, are hoping that Rome will give the new body formal recognition - possibly as an "apostolic administration" supervised by a senior Catholic bishop. I've written an article in the Catholic Herald outlining what the Vatican may be prepared to offer Bishop Andrew Burnham and his colleagues, for whom it has the highest regard. I'm pretty sure that parishes will be welcomed en masse (unlike in 1992), though their chances of staying in their original building depend entirely on the goodwill of the Church of England. Many Anglican clergy can expect to become Roman Catholic priests after only a short delay - there will be an accelerated period of study. Being married won't be a problem; being openly gay will be an insuperable barrier. But the Pope is taking a close interest in this matter, and regards the prospect of an influx of devout Anglo-Catholics as God's gift to the wider Church. Also, I suspect that senior C of E bishops will be very flexible. After all, they begged the Synod to offer proper safeguards to opponents of women bishops on Monday, and the Synod told them to get lost.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anglican; catholic; fullcommunion; tac; traditionalanglican
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Damian Thompson is reporting that "The Fellowship of St. Gregory the Great" may be set up to reconcile Traditionalist Anglicans back to Rome.

He also links an article that confirms that Anglican Bishop Burnham has now publicly confirmed he is ready to bring his entire 120 parish Anglican diocese with him and is waiting for Rome to respond to his hopes.

Of course, a spokesperson for the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales says that all are welecome as individuals, but en masse conversions are not something that they see as viable.

Perhaps Pope Benedict will send them a memo on this one.

Regards

1 posted on 07/10/2008 5:54:08 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564


Saint Gregory I the Great or Pope Saint Gregory I (c. 540 – March 12, 604) was pope from September 3, 590 until his death.

He is also known as Gregory the Dialogist (Gregorios Dialogos) in Eastern Orthodoxy because of the Dialogues he wrote. For this reason, English translations of Orthodox texts will sometimes list him as "Gregory Dialogus". He was the first of the Popes from a monastic background. Gregory is a Doctor of the Church and one of the four great Latin Fathers of the Church (the others being Ambrose, Augustine, and Jerome). Of all popes, Gregory I had the most influence on the early medieval church.[1]

Immediately after his death, Gregory was canonized by popular acclaim.[2] He is seen as a patron of England.[3]
2 posted on 07/10/2008 6:00:03 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: CTrent1564

I’m with you and hope that Pope Benedict embraces and streamlines this undertaking.


3 posted on 07/10/2008 6:01:10 AM PDT by Artemis Webb ( OBAMA/HUCKABEE '08)
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To: CTrent1564

“Ex-Anglicans will bring new life to our Church
This time, former C of E traditionalists must be allowed to stay together, says Damian Thompson”

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/opinion/o0000261.shtml

“”So what might an agreement between Rome and former Anglo-Catholics look like? Here are some informed guesses:

1. Rome will set up an “apostolic administration” under a Catholic bishop to offer pastoral care to former Anglican priests and their parishioners.

2. The ex-Anglicans will form an umbrella organisation called something like the Fellowship of St Gregory the Great. The Fellowship, under the guidance of their new Catholic bishop, will consist of former Anglican priests who have been ordained into the Catholic priesthood. Their parishes, though open to anyone, will consist largely of ex-Anglicans.

3. Some Fellowship parishes will occupy their former church buildings, though this will require an unprecedented degree of co-operation with the Church of England.

4. Former Anglican communities may - if they wish - be allowed to use parts of the Book of Common Prayer adapted for Catholic use, as in a few American parishes. In practice, there will be little demand for this concession, I suspect.

5. Former Anglican priests will undergo an accelerated programme of study allowing them to be swiftly ordained. (Conditional ordination is unlikely to be on offer.) Marriage will be no bar to ordination, but no actively gay priest will be knowingly ordained, and this will be strictly enforced.

6. However there will be no question of married lay former Anglicans becoming priests, since this would effectively abolish the rule of celibacy in the Western Church.

7. There will therefore be no Uniate Anglican-Rite Church; there is not enough demand for it, and it raises too many questions about celibacy and jurisdiction.

8. That said, there could well be a future for the Fellowship of St Gregory once its original supply of ex-Anglicans has died out. The treasures our new brethren will bring with them - a poetic and contemplative spirituality, glorious prayers, fine music - will permanently enrich the Catholic Church in England; they belong to us all.

As I say, these are just informed guesses. I have only one plea to the Vatican and the Catholic bishops:

Please, get it right this time. “”


4 posted on 07/10/2008 6:11:20 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: CTrent1564; All

There is also the additional benefit of at least ONE church in England prepared to face the islamic onslaught on English traditions.


5 posted on 07/10/2008 6:20:43 AM PDT by britt reed (His followers believe Obama is the "Second Coming", those with open eyes recognize the Golden Calf.)
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To: britt reed

I agree with you totallyr. When one hears Church of England clerics and at least 1 U.K. Judge stating that some aspects of Shiria law might be needed in the U.K., you know PC muliculturalism-marxist-decontructinism has gone amok.

Thus, a united Catholic Church which embraces orthodox Apostolic Tradition is in the end, what will save Europe from the two pillars of evil, milatant secuarlism and radical Islam.

Regards


6 posted on 07/10/2008 6:28:46 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
Anglican Bishop Burnham has now publicly confirmed he is ready to bring his entire 120 parish Anglican diocese with him and is waiting for Rome to respond to his hopes.

Of course, a spokesperson for the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales says that all are welecome as individuals, but en masse conversions are not something that they see as viable.

Ass. He has zero authority to even speculate on the matter.

Perhaps Pope Benedict will send them a memo on this one.

Lord willing.

Such a move would not only be a great benefit for the souls involved, but the dignified language of the traditional BCP would be a boon to the debate over English vernacular liturgy.

7 posted on 07/10/2008 6:35:10 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake
Perhaps Pope Benedict will send them a memo on this one.
Lord willing.

From what I hear, the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales could do with a lot of Papal memos! ;-)

8 posted on 07/10/2008 7:17:20 AM PDT by maryz
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo
I think the chanceries in the existing British dioceses do not want the job competition and the extra work that the wholesale importation of 120 parishes would entail.

Cormac Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor should know better than to issue susch statements, especially after the brouhaha over the motu proprio. But he has a terrible track record with his media spokesmen.

10 posted on 07/10/2008 8:04:20 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: iowamark; CTrent1564; britt reed; Huber; sionnsar
And still more from former Anglican, Fr. Dwight Longenecker's blog.


Fellowship of St Gregory the Great?


Damian Thompson blogs here about something called The Fellowship of St Gregory the Great. This, he claims, is the proposal being put to the Vatican by the Anglican traditionalist bishops. It will be a fellowship presided over by a Catholic bishop. (Bishop Alan Hopes--a former Anglo-- Catholic priest now an auxiliary Bishop of Westminster--would be an obvious choice) This fellowship would be a kind of 'church within a church'. Anglo Catholics would come over en masse, the Church of England would kindly allow them to keep their church buildings. Their priests (including their married ones) would be fast tracked to Catholic ordination and they would bring all the great riches of their Anglican traditionalism into the Catholic Church. The ones who will try to stop this great event will be the liberal English Catholic bishops.

I think this would be lovely, and I welcome all Anglo Catholics in England and around the world into the Catholic Church. I think they will be a great gift to our Church and I hope we will all make them welcome, help their priests to enter into the fullness of Catholic ministry etc etc.

However Damian, for all his enthusiasm, doesn't seem to have grasped some basic realities.  Any Anglo Catholics out there also need to be aware of the hard facts. I write this having worked  with converts for seven years as a representative of the St Barnabas Society, and having travelled extensively in England visiting Catholic parishes every weekend. Here are the  facts which reveal the Fellowship of St Gregory the Great to be a pipe dream:

1. There aren't really that many Anglo Catholics who are ready to come over. Most of them have already become Catholics when women were first ordained. 1300 signed the letter saying they'd leave, but out of these you need to remove the Evangelicals, a good number of the retired men, the active homosexuals, those in irregular marriages and those who, at some point, were Catholics and converted to Anglicanism. For various reasons these men are unlikely to convert. One high level Anglo Catholic source predicts that there are only 500 Anglo Catholic priests at the very most who wish to convert.

2. The married men present further problems. The English Catholic Church is small. There are more Catholic priests, for instance, in the Diocese of Brooklyn than in the whole of the Catholic Church in England and Wales. However, there are already more married former Anglican priests in England and Wales than there are in the whole of the USA.

These married former Anglicans already occupy the precious few chaplaincy posts which have a salary that could support a married man and his family. In addition, few Catholic bishops (even assuming that they are well disposed to former Anglicans) would wish to imbalance their diocesan list of clergy with an overwhelming number of married men.

3. The experience of the Catholic Church in England and Wales has not been unanimously positive towards former Anglican clergy. Most have fit in well and made a splendid contribution. However, many Catholic lay people are angry that married former Anglicans are allowed to be ordained, but their own popular priests cannot marry.

Furthermore, a few of the former Anglicans have made themselves a proper nuisance. They have demanded all the things they used to have as Anglicans, drained parishes and dioceses financially due to their demands and imposed an Anglican mentality on a very different Catholic culture.

Some of those who came across went scooting back to the Anglican Church after a short time, and even some who were ordained went back. These few bad examples have left a bad taste in the mouth of those who were not very positive about Anglican converts to start with.

4. The idea of mass conversions is pleasing, and in a situation like the group of Assyrians who came in a few months ago, is possible. For Anglicans the situation is very different. We cannot assume, even in the most trad Anglo Catholic parish that everyone in the pew is up to speed on the fullness of Catholic doctrine. Nor can we assume, for all their smells and bells, that they really understand the true reason for becoming Catholic. Each convert needs to be instructed in the faith. We can't just accept them en bloc.

5. The same applies to the clergy. We can't assume that every Anglo Catholic priest is necessarily called to the Catholic priesthood. We can't even assume that they all have much love for the Catholic Church. The Anglo Catholics I know often have a chip on their shoulder about the Pope and the Catholic Church. Each applicant for the priesthood would have to be vetted just like any other applicant. Their religious and spiritual background has to be considered. There are possible canonical, moral, psychological and legal impediments that need to be investigated in each case. It is generally agreed that Cardinal Hume's 'fast track' for Anglo Catholic clergy in Westminster in the early 90s was a mistake.

6. The Church of England is not going to let go of any buildings. Remember, not all Anglo Catholics are Benedict XVI loving traditionalists. The liberal, homosexual and feminist Anglo Catholics will only be too happy to step into the breach in these churches, keep swinging the incense and protesting that they are the true Catholics. In this way a form of Anglo Catholicism will continue to exist within Anglicanism.

7. Finally, there is the international situation. I doubt whether Rome will come up with a solution that only applies to England. Far more likely that they will come up with some advice for troubled Anglicans worldwide, and that advice is very likely to be: by all means join us. Come one by one and be reconciled at your local parish church.

I should make it clear that I am not happy to point out these details, and I am not trying to attack either Anglo Catholics or the idea of the Fellowship of St Gregory. I wish to do everything possible to welcome Anglicans. I'm just pointing out some of the hurdles that will need to be overcome.






Father Dwight Longenecker Brought up in an American Evangelical home, I went to Bob Jones University--the jewel on the buckle of the Bible Belt. While there I came down with a severe case of Anglophilia from reading too much C.S.Lewis and Tolkien and T.S.Eliot. I went to study theology at Oxford, was ordained as an Anglican priest and stayed in England for twenty five years. After ten years wearing a dog collar I was received into the Catholic Church. I spent ten years as a layman writing articles and books no one reads. Then the call came to return to the United States. In December 2006 I was ordained as a Catholic priest. I am now chaplain at St Joseph's Catholic School in Greenville, South Carolina, and I am on the staff of St Mary's Greenville.

Standing On My Head


11 posted on 07/10/2008 10:19:26 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

To NYer and all thread participants:

Anyone heard what is going on at the Anglican-Use Conference in San Antonio. I have visited their site and nothing is posted yet. So, first one with any news, please post it.

Regards


12 posted on 07/10/2008 11:50:46 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: sandyeggo

Thanks for the agenda. Did you happen to look at the Churches? They’re both stunning especially this one...
http://www.atonementonline.com/index.php

I keep praying that all will be well. There’s a lot to work out but none of it’s impossible.


15 posted on 07/10/2008 4:07:29 PM PDT by chase19
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To: CTrent1564
Anyone heard what is going on at the Anglican-Use Conference in San Antonio.

I imagine Fr. Phillips will do updates on his blog: http://www.atonementparish.blogspot.com

I went this evening to the Requiem Mass. It was a beautiful Rite I Mass. Tons of clergy. I stayed for the welcome address afterwards, but left before the Dinner & Solemn Evensong as I hate dodging deer & crazy people on I-10 after dark.

16 posted on 07/10/2008 8:49:09 PM PDT by sockmonkey (I swam the Tiber. The water was warm and welcoming.)
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To: sandyeggo
a freeper is a member of the congregation, but I don’t remember who - but I don’t think it was sockmonkey. sockmonkey, do you know?

It is me, and also my daughter is one of Mother Angelica's Poor Clares who will be opening a new foundation at Our Lady of the Atonement. They are nicknamed the San Antonio Cinqos. Three of the sisters are converts-one from Anglicanism, One from Epicopalianism, and one from the Lutheran church. So, there are Tiber swimmers everywhere. God is good.

BTW, I'm not the only freeper in attendance at the AU Conference. It's fun to meet in person.

18 posted on 07/11/2008 5:59:36 AM PDT by sockmonkey (I swam the Tiber. The water was warm and welcoming.)
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To: CTrent1564
Friday was our "big day" at the AU Conference. Quite a few potential Tiber swimmers present (clergy & laity). Fr Phillips spoke about his conversion & the years since, ditto for Fr. Hawkins. News on AU communities that are forming, and Bishops who are open to the Pastoral Provision.

At Mass tonight Archbishop Gomez pointed out that 475 years ago to the Day, Pope Clement VII issued his Bull of Excommunication to Henry VIII.

I left before Most Rev. John J. Myers, Ecclesiastical Delegate for the Pastoral Provision gave his talk so I could avoid deer & drunks on I-10.

20 posted on 07/11/2008 8:57:51 PM PDT by sockmonkey (I swam the Tiber. The water was warm and welcoming.)
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