Because I am cute
Posted on 06/30/2008 6:25:14 PM PDT by Utah Girl
Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.
And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.
"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)
In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)
"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.
What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."
That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."
Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."
"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.
"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."
Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.
And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.
The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.
"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."
He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."
"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."
In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.
Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."
But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.
You might find the linked lecture interesting ... Gary answers most of the questions you keep tossing out thinking you’re stumping folks so readers will turn to mormonism.
the bottom line for us is that it has been by grace alone, for from my background no works would have sufficed to earn God's favor ++++++++++++++++=
But, how do you know you are one of the ELECT that your god choose to be save to live with him?
You know, that decision he made before you were born to give grace to whom he wants. How can anyone know that he was predestioned, by your god, to be saved, or to be damed, by the teachings of your god. Just what is the purpose for those who are not part of your god's elect? Why did your god make them when all they can do is suffer?
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Nothing unusual about healings.
You see, God the Father loves us all and wants ALL his children to return to Him.
Why would a self proclaimed Christian choose the handle of the Japanese movie god of terrier?
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No, these are questions that show me there is a better choice then that of MEN disagreeing over which of the man-made reformations is the true reformation.
You might find the linked lecture interesting ... Gary answers most of the questions
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Listened to it while eating breakfast and found nothing new. I converted it to a file for my MP3 so I can study it later and see if there is anything I missed.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (that includes me) that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever (that includes me again) believeth on Him shall (unconditional promise) not perish but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:11-13 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
You know, that decision he made before you were born to give grace to whom he wants. How can anyone know that he was predestioned, by your god, to be saved, or to be damed, by the teachings of your god. Just what is the purpose for those who are not part of your god's elect? Why did your god make them when all they can do is suffer?
You err by claiming I am predestined and by doing such you are being intellectually dishonest with what I've presented as well as the Bibles teaching on the subject. To you Jesus would have said - ...."Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (Mt 22:29)
Can you claim you have been forgiven of all your sins? “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”—Doctrine and Covenants, Section 82:7 Have you stopped sinning? How about the dishonesty you are showing here through mistating my replies and other sources? Or is it OK to lie for the Lord in mormonism?
Because I am cute
I'm going to try this one more time, so please try to concentrate:
When God makes a Promise, if you do that which He commands be done to receive that Promise, receiving the Promise is based upon His Integrity to fullfill His Promise, not based upon your feeble abilities to hold onto that which He Gives to you ... He makes the Promise, He keeps that Promise and keeps you receiving that Promise ... even as by fire in some cases (that's very scriptural and you can dig it out I sure), but the Salvation is based upon His Promise, not upon all that you can do.
Consider the following notion:
God can 'see' all of Time as if a panorama to His view. The moment you believe His Promise to save you because you believe in His Deliverer as your Savior, that moment is established forever more, because God made the Promise wihtout provision other than by faith you accept His Deliverer.
Try to avoid the usual pretzelization where you try to establish some exception clause to nullify His Promise explained to you.
That is where you are wrong. During both instances I was at a spiritual low in my life, doubting God's concern for me. My migraine condition was stopped in the middle of its normal (at the time) onset - hasn't troubled me for 30+ years after that day. Same with my hearing after 5 operations on my ears. And that doesn't include other healings personally observed of others as well as self. No, on the contrary it is one of the components of my experience - tied in with the promises from scripture, that confirms my salvation.
That is one cute little dog! ... I wonder if ‘fred’ realizes that the Japanese filmmakers transformed Godzilla into a misunderstood living thing deserving of life and defeater of ‘Rodan’ the horrible, etc., saving Japan from final destruction?
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Oh, I see, you are not won of the predestination believers.
There are so many ideas about what God is doing, and so many overlapping ideas, that I miss understood you.
Please give the title of the offshoot you belong to, or are you one of the freelance christian that cannot agree with anyone and decides for himself what God means?
HOT DAMN!!!!!! Thanks -- you just made my day. And, you mihght quit whining, hypocrite -- What do you think all of your stupid Mormon-bashing is, if it isn't p[ersonal attackson Mormons and their beliefs?
Man, now that is just funny no matter who you are...
I also don't remember the Japanese worshiping Godzilla, though they have made a lot of money with the radioactive little lizard...
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That is where you are wrong.
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OK, Nothing unusual about healings around here.
Please feel free.. But I think I can promise that if you start posting the senseless, vicious junk that he posts, I will probably reply to them in the same sein that I reply to his vacuous trash.
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To your way of thinking, is the belief in His Premise something you need to do, or did God decide you were going to do it?
Offshoot of what?
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Yes I do, the people excepted the damage she did because she keep other monsters out. Kind-a-like where I grew up outside of Philly. We accepted the local gang because they keep all the other gangs out of our neighborhood.
You don't even have a grasp upon those who understand predestination, let along judge me among or outside them.
There are so many ideas about what God is doing, and so many overlapping ideas, that I miss understood you.
Back to the bicycle boy script again huh. But then I can see how you can become easily confused - with mormon doctrine changing upon the whim of the current seer and prophet over riding the doctrine from god(s) established by a previous prophet and seer. Like who their god is (Adam or some one else), who is always changing, etc. If Gods are individuals who have passed through mortality and have progressed to Godhood, how has one person of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit) attained Godhood without getting a body? If the Book of Mormon really contains the fullness of the Gospel, why does it not teach the doctrine of “eternal progression”? Of course Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old.
So I can see why you can be easily confused.
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