Posted on 06/30/2008 6:25:14 PM PDT by Utah Girl
Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.
And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.
"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)
In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)
"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.
What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."
That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."
Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."
"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.
"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."
Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.
And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.
The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.
"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."
He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."
"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."
In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.
Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."
But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.
1. Not working way out, in unsaved state not even there. Bible said you break one point, you are guilty of all.
Never answered #1 as you state - don't put words in to my mouth. All have sinned and fallen short (Rom 3:23) - Not even in heaven to begin with. We can only be saved if God provides the means.
Gee roy, which Mormon group are you with?
There are hundreds, many of which are still following the teachings of Jos. Smith, such as the fLDS, the RLDS, the The Church of Christ "With The Elijah Message," etc, etc.
Does your stake follow the message handed down to Jos. Smith or are you in the sect that Jos. Smith wouldn't recognize if he was around today??
thats what the bible says
Not only can we work our way out of heaven, we cannot go to heaven if we do not believe and call on Him and accept His sacrifice.
Bible never teaches we start out in heaven to begin with - no mormon spirit children doctrine applicable here - no surprise.
If you want to place your faith in a non-biblical Jesus, you place your faith in that which will not save you. The only thing you can do is an action of the heart. That action doesn't save you, the act of salvation was already accomplished by Jesus.
It is not that confusing - back to your bicycle boy notes I see.
And you like to misrepresent their teachings too, right. Maybe next time you can provide exerpts, then we can evaluate in context what is being taught.
| Subject: | Tithing and Kids with Holey Shoes |
| Date: | Dec 27 14:00 |
| Author: | kc |
| Mail Address: | kcgood@att.net |
| And no, I don't mean HOLY shoes. When I was a single mom (divorced due to abuse), I had four young kids. I was working for $7 an hour and getting child support. I was NOT making ends meet. We were eating from the food bank. I had asked the bishop for help, and he never "got back to me." Well, eventually he did, and let me go to the LDS Food pantry a couple times. But I mean, I was so broke!! Had my power shut off in winter. So I had always been a full tithe payer AND made fast offerings. My bishop had also told me I had to tithe, not only on my $7/hour gross, but also I had to tithe on my scholarships and grants, and had to tithe on my child support (which was paid by my LDS ex who had already tithed on it). So I did. One year it was just too hard and I got behind on the tithing because my little kids needed some clothes. It was Christmastime, I didn't have any presents bought for them and they had holes in their shoes. I wanted to get them shoes for Christmas. I went to tithing settlement, ashamed. I hung my head and told him my dilemma. I HAD paid tithing, for about 7 months of the year. I said, "I'm sorry, you'll have to mark me as a partial tithe payer this year. I would have to pay $500 to be a full tithe payer, and I only have $510 in the bank right now and haven't paid the bills yet or bought my kids shoes or food." He just looked at me, all disappointed. Asked me something about faith and trusting the Lord. I said, "I can't afford to pay it." and he said, "You can't afford NOT to pay it." After a minute of silence, I pulled out the checkbook and wrote him a check for $500. He smiled and checked the Full Tithe Payer box, and said, Merry Christmas. My kids did get a couple things for Christmas, from Salvation Army, but they didn't get shoes. They did get a Christmas turkey from their elementary school who was giving them to the "needy" families, but honestly, we suffered. I have to wonder about a bishop who would ask such a thing of a single mom. |
You really do remind me of someone....
They must have wanted to try out their new "authority" right away in "doing all they could do".
While Moses was on the mountain receiving the first set of Law from God, Aaron could have stopped the pagan worship of the people by saying it was wrong and that they would wait for Moses and the Word from God. Instead, Aaron did what would make the people like him and feel like they were working their way to righteousness with a fabricated religion. If what you insist upon is that feel comfy religion, find other threads while we resist the works message that aims to guide people ... straight away from God’s Grace on the broad road of works to make self righteous. Aaron is your type of man, the Aaron appeasing the people while they wallow in pagan rites.
Sorry...but that post was nearly impossible to understand.
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Then, let me try again.
You asked;
“Is it good “manners” to basically tell all Christians...that they won’t get to the “many mansions” without J. Smith’s consent?”
Is it good manners for you to tell me that I can only get to heaven if I do it your way?
It is the same after all.
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So now, you can do any sin because it is pre-forgiven.
You can offend anyone you want to and you have no responsibility.
You can twist words and you pay no price.
You can misrepresent the truth and it is ok with God.
1. Not working way out, in unsaved state not even there. Bible said you break one point, you are guilty of all.
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Please tell me how you know you are saved.
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If I am, it is only because I am doing as you do over and over.
You are not the first anti that tells me not to act like they do.
You know, the old DO AS I SAY AND NOT AS I DO.
I am a Methodist by birth. In my late twenties I converted to Orthodox, after a very long Catechism. I am now back in the Methodist Church where I live now, for reasons that are personal but happen to have nothing to do with dogma.
I am also active in Ecumenical non denominational Prison and Forth Day ministries with fellow Christians from all denominations including Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, and even Orthodox members among others.
The Message of these Ministries is very clear, that we are saved by Grace through Jesus.
If there were serious doctrinal differences, especially about salvation, among these denominations as was stated by your opponent, then how could lay as well as clergy members of all these supposed “opposing” faiths participate in sharing the same message with the blessings and support of their churches and organizations?
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Bible never teaches we start out in heaven to begin with
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I guess I did not do a good job of stating what I meant.
You teach that we can work our way out of our place in heaven, before we get there.
You almost got through just telling me why you are right, but you had to add a cut of my religion. Now again, you tell me I must do something to be saved.
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If you want to place your faith in a non-biblical Jesus, you place your faith in that which will not save you. The only thing you can do is an action of the heart. That action doesn’t save you, the act of salvation was already accomplished by Jesus.
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Again you have told me I must do something to be saved.
Yet you have told me I can do nothing that will get me saved.
????????????
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And you like to misrepresent their teachings too, right.
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You have done a very poor job of studying their web site if you say that.
I don't...
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