The case of the anti-Mormons

The Deseret News ^ | 6/30/2008 | Scott D. Pierce

[Utah Girl]

Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.

And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.

"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)

In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)

"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.

What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."

That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."

Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."

"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.

"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."

Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.

And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.

The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.

"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."

He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."

"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."

In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.

Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."

But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.

[Old Mountain man]

Not bad!

[JRochelle]

I have no idea whether the book is fact or fiction. Abusers come in all stripes, no matter the religion.

Were women abused back in early Utah when polygamy was practiced? Yes. Polygamy itself is abuse.

Read the book by Ann Young and how women were treated. She was his wife at one time. Women were married for many reasons. Sometimes for their wealth or for free labor.

Men were encouraged to abandon their old wives. By their leader Young.

In fact Brigham Young, in the last year of his life said in an interview that he was at that time only supporting 15 of his wives.

Now what the heck were all the others doing? Living in bliss in some polygamist retirement community?

No. They had to fend for themselves.

Even way back then the Republican Party got it right. It was against slavery and the slavery of polygamy.

[JRochelle]

Don't blame UG for the myth that Utah was first.

That story is most likely what you call an urban legend in Utah. It gets repeated over and over and eventually everyone believes it.

I never doubted it when I first read that. Glad someone checked it out.

[Colofornian]

The difference between you and the Mormons is that the Mormons evangelize - you denigrate. Your approach is simply mean. Evangelizing requires a positive message. [FREngineer]

Oh, you mean the proselytizing efforts of Mormon Missionaries -- all 60,000+ of them with numbers added every year -- highlighting as a key door-to-door "teaching" the alleged universal "apostasy" of ALL of Christendom & restoration, where they essentially paraphrase the LDS "Scripture" from the Pearl of Great Price:

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join...I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)÷and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were ALL wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were ALL corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with ANY of them...

Did you notice, RF, all the sweeping "absolutes" claimed by Smith here in this Mormon "Scripture"? None, All, All, All, and Any!

Do Christians go around claiming ALL Mormon creeds are an "abomination" before God like Mormons do of Christians? (No)
Do Christians go around claiming ALL Mormon professors (professors of what they believe) are corrupt like Mormons do of Christians? (No)

[ejonesie22]

You do have to hand it to them though, the uniformity in their methods across many individuals is impressive. Like we were talking about, the training in obfuscation and twisting begins young.

That, and why when I hear talk of the Indians and Jews in the new world am I reminded of Mel Brooks playing the indian chief in Blazing Saddles...

[SkyPilot]

Don't blame UG for the myth that Utah was first. That story is most likely what you call an urban legend in Utah. It gets repeated over and over and eventually everyone believes it. I never doubted it when I first read that. Glad someone checked it out.

I don't, and upon further read of the thread, I see she herself acknowledged this.

As I have said before, Utah Girl is a very decent person and I respect her. I disagree with Mormonism, of course, but we are all supposed to be civil here.

[fproy2222]

Christians won't be getting into the mansion. Wow....a mormon finally admitted that.

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Wrong.
You have misrepenseted what was said.

You passed over the parts that said the rest of the Christians can have the same afterlife by following Christ's teachings to you, instead of one of the many gospels that good men have created while trying to understand God's word in the Bible.

[fproy2222]

Whenever joey is placed 1st and must meet joey's standard 1st, it places Jesus in a secondary position and contradicts the bible. No where in any of those citations can one even come close to the concept of helping.

+++++++++++++++++=

Your actions are that of someone that has started with the answer ans then picks only the facts he wants.

Many years ago I found that the different denominations and groups had different, and often, opposing ways that they said the Bible tells us we are Saved.

After finding that the confusion of what the Bible said was very wide spread.

There are so many different teachings of the good men and woman that worked to understand God's Word. Men have created a very confused God.

God has correct the problem by returning His Church to the earth. His Son, Jesus is the head of that Church. Jesus uses His Prophets to help administer the daily needs of His Church.

[fproy2222]

And you guys wonder WHY Christians stand against mormonism????

++++++++++++++++

I do not wonder why some, who claim to be Christians, do what you do here.

I have found that most Christians admit that their beliefs are correct, and others are wrong.

They also use good manners when speaking of the differences.

Here at FR, there are a lot of people who do not use good manners.

[fproy2222]

Not bad!

++

It is kind-a-fun to use the same type of creative editing that the “antis” here use.

Let me try again,

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated ... God” (Romans 1:1.)

[MHGinTN]

And you fail to see why the remark is scurrilous! The entire last sentence is the endictment!

==>> YOMWMTT! <<==

 

**************************

IS Mormonism occult? Yes. ... Magic and Occultic beliefs & practices are laced throughout the earliest Mormon origins.

The Mormon Temple Ceremony compares quite exactly with the Masonic Ceremony, signs, tokens and penalties included. Joseph, Hyrum, Brigham, and others, were Masons. (Cult experts consider Masonic ritual, when practiced as a religion, to be a Satanic Cult.)

Is the Mormon Temple Ceremony Satanic?

Read these Questions for Your [Mormon] Temple Tour ...

... and watch this reenactment of the Mormon Temple Ceremony ...

... paying special attention to ...

• Mocking Christian pastors as hirelings of Satan
• Wearing a fig leaf apron to symbolize Satan’s power and priesthoods
• Having Lucifer teach Mormon church doctrine
• Portraying Satan as the god of this world
• Offering prayers to the devil – Oh god, hear the words of my mouth
• Praising Satan by chanting Hebrew words in the ceremony whose translation is Marvelous Lucifer
• Showing Lucifer as able to defy Elohim’s commands without consequence
• Praying for the violent overthrow of the US Government

Note:
Each of these terrible things is, or has been, an integral part of Mormon Temple Rites. The portrayal of pastors as satanic stooges, prayers for the overthrow of the US Government (as punishment for Mormon persecution) and the chanting of "Marvelous Lucifer" in Hebrew were eliminated a few years ago because of protests received after outsiders learned about them – despite Smith’s stern admonition that the ceremony was received directly from god and could not be changed upon penalty of death. All of the remaining practices are performed to this day.

... and then decide for yourself.

[Osage Orange]

Here at FR, there are a lot of people who do not use good manners.

Is it good "manners" to basically tell all Christians...that they won't get to the "many mansions" without J. Smith's consent?

[RFEngineer]

“You are intolerant of many pointing out...that mormonism is a cult.”

I couldn’t care less if Mormonism is a cult. The Mormons I know are clean living and patriotic. They are over represented in organizations like the FBI and Secret Service because they are so much more likely to meet requirements for a security clearance and a background check. (Please, I’m not trying to feed your paranoia about them - so don’t make that leap about them being in gov’t security agencies)

If you don’t like them, then don’t join them. They’ve asked me to join them and upon politely declining, they’ve been amiable nonetheless.

My problem with you anti-Mormonoids is that you are so insecure in your faith that you have to tear theirs down. If you truly believe the Gospels you espouse, you know that Mormonism is no threat.

Mormons do more good in this world than most sects. They help people, and yes, by doing so they make their way seem like a reasonable option. There is nothing wrong with that.

In a disaster, even a major one of national proportions, Mormons will feed you. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think you’d do the same.

You should be as good a Christian as they are as a group.

I think that is what really makes you and the anti-Mormon herd mad. They aren’t afraid of you, but you are afraid of them.

[RFEngineer]

“Did you notice, RF, all the sweeping “absolutes” claimed by Smith here in this Mormon “Scripture”? None, All, All, All, and Any!”

I don’t read or believe in the Book of Mormon. So I don’t notice the absolutes.

They have a right to their faith. You have a right to yours.

That should be the end of the story, but you folks want to tear them down, and you look paranoid and powerless when you do it. It’s hard enough doing the right thing as a Christian - so please, until you’ve perfected that, please don’t go around pointing fingers. It’s not your job.

[greyfoxx39]

In a disaster, even a major one of national proportions, Mormons will feed you.

Where in the world do you get that idea? Mormons are taught to have foodstocks enough to feed their own families...not lazy folks who aren't diligent enough to lay aside their year's worth of supplies.

In case of a national disaster, short of using a gun, you won't get close to mormon stores.

Counting down 10...9...8....7....for a post from some mormon claiming that the "church" will feed all-comers from the warehouses and farms....HOGWASH!

[greyfoxx39]

so please, until you’ve perfected that, please don’t go around pointing fingers. It’s not your job.

Golly, ANOTHER instance of when you should take your own advice...your posts are consistently "pointing fingers" and it's certainly "not your job".

One is reminded of Matthew 7:3 " And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

[Cvengr]

You must consider that you live in America and therefore have an obligation to not be intolerant religiously. You can do that and maintain your faith.

We live in the USA and are able to respect legitimate authority, both of our government and of God through faith in Christ.

When our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, He did so by obedience to the Plan of God by the Will of God the Father. He was not being tolerant of Pilate's different religious perspective or because Pilate worshiped Jupiter.

In His deity He was not able to sin, and in His humanity He was able not to sin.

Likewise, every believer today may walk in fellowship with God today through faith in Christ, being indwelt by God the Holy Spirit who provides the temple for God the Son and is one with God the Father.

The cult called the Church of latter Day Saints fails to acknowledge our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus as God, one with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

There is no other name in heaven amongst men by which we may have fellowship with Him, nor for the forgiveness of sin.

The doctrines of eternal assurance provide the studied believer assurance in his future abode. Through faith in Christ every believer is sealed by God the Holy Spirit for that eternal life.

I wouldn't be surprised if many amoral and immoral people, as well as many cult members happen to be in heaven, but I also have no doubt that those who fall out of fellowship and seek some other path to God other than through faith in Christ will find many a crown in heaven having been made for them in eternity past, never to be awarded them by our Lord and Savior due to their degenerate behavior and thinking after their initial salvation. Their eternal status shall be effected by lack of faith prior to the first death, but our hope is that by returning to Him, many a predestined crown await us in heaven to be awared upon His judgment of our good works performed through faith in Him. Those good works performed, not through faith in Him, might be good for temporary human good, only to be burnt up prior to His judgment of divinely established good works through faith in God the Son at the bema seat.

[RFEngineer]

“Golly, ANOTHER instance of when you should take your own advice...your posts are consistently “pointing fingers” and it’s certainly “not your job”.”

Geez, I must be getting good at getting under the cabal’s skin.

I am indeed pointing the finger at those who are religiously intolerant. I do so unabashedly, but you’ll notice I am not pointing fingers at or attacking your faith - THAT is where it’s not your job or mine.

I’m glad you pointed out that beam of Mormon paranoia in your eye.....I readily confess to the speck of pointing it out to you in mine.

[RFEngineer]

Ok. So who else is going to hell, besides the Mormons?

Make your list, I’m sure God will appreciate how helpful you will have been, presuming you make it to heaven.

[RFEngineer]

“Counting down 10...9...8....7....for a post from some mormon claiming that the “church” will feed all-comers from the warehouses and farms....HOGWASH!”

Jump into that ol’ tub with the hogs, you need a good scrubbing!

They did it in Louisiana during Katrina. Last I checked before the hurricane, it wasn’t a bastion of Mormonism. It may well be now though......