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To: NYer
The Fathers do affirm the inherent danger in deliberately rejecting the Church. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote at the turn of the second century, "Be not deceived, my brethren; if anyone follows a maker of schism, he does not inherit the kingdom of God" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3). In the third century, St. Cyprian of Carthage wrote, "whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress [a schismatic church] is separated from the promises of the Church, nor will he that forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is an alien, a worldling, and an enemy" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 6, 1). In the fourth century, St. Jerome wrote, "Heretics bring sentence upon themselves since they by their own choice withdraw from the Church, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes damnation" (Commentary on Titus 3:10-11).

No doubt this Apostasy worked well before the word of God was put into a book that people could read in their own language...Men wearing long robes and performing rituals made them look 'pious'...

Thank God the lies and deception are now out in the open...And yet, some people still chose religion over the words of Jesus Christ...

We have been taught that Christ is the first-begotten of God, and we have declared Him to be the Logos of which all mankind partakes (Jn. 1:9). Those, therefore, who lived according to reason [logos] were really Christians, even though they were thought to be atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others like them . . . those who lived before Christ but did not live according to reason were wicked men, and enemies of Christ, and murderers of those who did live according to reason, whereas those who lived then or who live now according to reason are Christians. Such as these can be confident and unafraid (First Apology 46).

What a damnable heresy...You are a Christian ONLY if you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour...No amount of 'reason' will get you into the Body of Christ...

Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at naught of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior (no. 7).

Heresy upon heresy...This could only be spoken by a unsaved person who does not know Jesus Christ...Completely unbiblical...

Baptism and unity with the Catholic Church provide the only assurance of salvation,

Sorry, there are millions of Christians who consider your religion to be another cult who have 'real' assurance of Salvation...Assurance from the word of God and the Holy Spirit...

He gave us the Sacrament of Baptism and unity with the Church as the ordinary means of salvation.

Not according to God's words...Repentance and accepting Jesus as your Saviour are the ordinary and ONLY means of Salvation...Any other way will get you into Hell...Eternal damnation...

One would be smart to 'dump' those church fathers and pick up a dime store bible and find the TRUTH...

26 posted on 06/29/2008 4:54:35 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
What a damnable heresy...You are a Christian ONLY if you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour...No amount of 'reason' will get you into the Body of Christ...

Thank you for sharing your own personal interpretation of Scripture.

27 posted on 06/29/2008 4:57:51 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool
Not according to God's words...

Your personal interpretation of them.

Repentance and accepting Jesus as your Saviour are the ordinary and ONLY means of Salvation...

Sola fide is non-Scriptural error.

You mention heresy? THAT is your heresy.

28 posted on 06/29/2008 4:59:44 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool
Sorry, there are millions of Christians who consider your religion to be another cult...

Many hate the Catholic Church, to be sure.

...who have 'real' assurance of Salvation...

So they have been convinced.

Assurance from the word of God and the Holy Spirit...

Sola fide is not Scriptural. It is a false tradition of men.

29 posted on 06/29/2008 5:01:59 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool
One would be smart to 'dump' those church fathers and pick up a dime store bible and find the TRUTH...

That would be the conclusion of someone who has abandoned logic, reason and common sense, right?

30 posted on 06/29/2008 5:02:54 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool
...a dime store bible...

Better to splurge on an unredacted copy...you know, the kind with all 73 books.

32 posted on 06/29/2008 5:04:13 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool
Not according to God's words...Repentance and accepting Jesus as your Saviour are the ordinary and ONLY means of Salvation...Any other way will get you into Hell...Eternal damnation...

One would be smart to 'dump' those church fathers and pick up a dime store bible and find the TRUTH...

Do you have this verse in your Bible?

1Pe 3:21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Or this one: Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Dang those pesky facts

44 posted on 06/29/2008 9:02:55 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Iscool
“One would be smart to ‘dump’ those church fathers and pick up a dime store bible and find the TRUTH...”

You are soooo right!

Precisely what some advocate here, the “church” traditions and rituals will NOT gain you anything. It's all about what is in your heart. Many are quite content to do what the Bible says NOT to do:

Matt.6:7

[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Matt.15:9

[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark.7:7

[7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

It is NOT an "interpretation issue". It's rather CLEAR for anyone who cares to follow CHRIST and not fallible mortals with a power hungry agenda.

Some prefer this:

Eph.4:14

[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

They don't want to read the Bible. They'd rather listen and follow some fallible mortal with an agenda. Truth isn't important to them and they'd rather trust IMPERFECT HUMANS to determine what they believe and where they wind up when they die - how foolish!

47 posted on 06/29/2008 9:09:38 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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