First the Protestants, Now the Cults: Will We (the Catholic Church) Be Ready?

Catholic Exchange ^ | May 29, 2008 | Mary Kochan

[NYer]

One of the most amazing works of the Holy Spirit over the past couple of decades or so has been the wave of Protestant converts coming into the Catholic Church.  Notable among them have been the Protestant ministers — the tip of the iceberg of whom have been the names that have become well-known in apologetics circles.  Though what they have been given by the Church surely dwarfs anything they have brought to her, it is also true that they have enlivened the faith of many a cradle Catholic with their enthusiasm and evident joy at discovering the truths of the faith.

Teaching Protestants who come into the Church is a challenge that any well-managed RCIA program should be able to meet. What has proved more difficult however has been finding ways to make use of the gifts and training that Protestant ministers bring with them and assisting them with their very special circumstance — that their conversion has met the end of their career.  The Coming Home Network, founded by Marcus Grodi, has served a very valuable role in helping these men (they are mostly men) make the difficult double transition into a new faith community and career at the same time.

What Marcus Grodi has found, as those who watch his show, The Journey Home, may have noticed, is that sprinkled among the converts from Protestant denominations have been here and there, converts, not merely from among our separated brethren, but from religious groups that deny nearly everything that we and the Protestants have in common.  At first it was rare and notable to see a former Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon being interviewed on his show. That has begun to change as converts from these groups become more common. Within recent weeks both a former Jehovah’s Witness and a deacon who was in The Way International appeared in separate episodes of The Journey Home.

These conversions from such high-control groups are often very dramatic and the choices these converts face may go well beyond the Protestant minister’s career upheavals to encompass cruel ostracism by close family members, shattering self-doubt, and difficult navigation through a socially alien terrain.

More and more, we are seeing converts whose backgrounds are much stranger, theologically and socially, than any former Baptist or Episcopalian. Have we noticed that they are coming in?  Are we ready for them?

One way we can get ready is by understanding more about what life in cult does to a person, the wounds that may be left from years of spiritual and emotional abuse, from years of living in existential terror of violating dehumanizing and arbitrary — and constantly changing — rules.  The people most equipped to convey this understanding to us are the people who have lived the experience of being in a cult, coming out, and coming into the Catholic Church.  The richness of their experience cannot be overstated any more than can the depth of their gratitude.  The one who has been forgiven much, loves much, and the one in whom the light itself has been darkness finds special joy in the true light.

So come and learn from these people whose amazing journey will inspire and educate you.  Come to the Welcome Home! Catholic Conference in Weirton, WV from August 1-3. The conference is sponsored by the Fellowship of Catholic Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Speakers include our own Mark Shea, Tom Cabeen, a former overseer at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses and yours truly.  I will be giving an extended talk on the subject of cults on Friday evening. It is called “Hijacked Lives” and will cover how people get recruited into cults, what happens to them while they are in the group and what kind of help they need when they get out.

I especially urge Catholic social workers, counselors, and other mental health providers to come and learn how to effectively help people with this history. Priests, DREs, and catechists will benefit from understanding how to
meet the unique needs of this population as they enter the Catholic Church in increasing numbers — because whether we are ready or not, God is bringing them to us.

This conference will also be invaluable for anyone with a family member in this group — or in any similar group that wrecks havoc with family life. Come meet others who understand the deep sense of loss, the holiday turmoil, the walking on eggshells.

Weirton, WV is about 20 minutes from the Pittsburgh International Airport and 30 minutes from the Franciscan University of Steubenville. Special early-registration rates are available now through June 30^th.  To see the agenda and to register for the conference click here or follow the link on the website of The Catholic Fellowship of Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses, www.catholicxjw.com.

[Uncle Chip]

Are you kidding? Not me! I try very hard **not** to start religious flame wars.

Personally, when I meet people of another religion, I seriously try to focus in our commonalities, not our differences.

..... I have little respect for the anti-Catholic and anti-Mormon bashers on FR. Honestly, given the level and intensity of their venom, I think they would burn members of these two religions at the stake, if they could get away with it.

You're not trying very hard here, are you???? Perhaps you need to try a little harder next time.

[wintertime]

You’re not trying very hard here, are you???? Perhaps you need to try a little harder next time.
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Likely, my Christian religion does have a lot in common with the religions of those who bash Mormonism and Catholicism. If I were to meet them personally, and if the topic of religion came up, I would focus on our commonalities. I would **not** allow negative comments about other religions, and if the basher persisted, I would excuse myself and leave.

I am not Mormon or Catholic, by the way.

[wintertime]

These are only my personal observations, and are not “fact.”
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Seems true for my husband’s many relatives in N J, and mine as well.

Within our family there are plenty of “buffet line” Catholics who pick an choose, a few who are bitter, and the rest are practicing nothing. A few have moved to a fundamentalist Christian denominations which includes my husband and me.

Personally, I would like to see **more** Catholics who had a true testimony of Christ and confidence in Catholicism and believe in and practiced **ALL** of it teachings. Our nation would be stronger and more prosperous, and families and children happier.

[Uncle Chip]

Likely, my Christian religion does have a lot in common with the religions of those who bash Mormonism and Catholicism.

And just what "Christian" religion would that be??????

[wintertime]

The statistics for the retention of Christian children in the faith from strong Christian homes such as you describe are horrific! If a parent sends their child to government school is is **highly ** likely that they will leave the faith, never to return. With homeschooling they are **more** than 90% likely to remain faithful.

Worse, is that those youth and young adults who claim to be Christian hold beliefs that are **not** Christian! It is a sad mixture of feel good Oprah Winnfreyism.

Those are the facts. I hope your family beats the odds. Some kids do.

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_we_are_loosing_our_children.htm

The research data on the success of the public schools in indoctrinating Christian youth with humanistic or neo-pagan worldviews is overwhelming. The Nehemiah Institute's worldview PEERS test shows that 83-percent of the children from committed Christian families in public schools adopt a secular humanist or Marxist socialist worldview. At the SBC's 2002 annual meeting, the Southern Baptist Council on Family Life reported, among other disturbing things, that 88-percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at age 18. Barna Research reports that only 9-percent of born-again teens believe in moral absolutes, and more than half believe that Jesus sinned while He was on earth. We believe the fact that 80-percent of Christian families send their children to public schools is a prime reason for this lost legacy.

Finally, if Christians were true missionaries they would first do all they could to get their own kids out of government schools. They would then donate money and time ( and volunteer as teachers) so that every child who was too poor, or whose mom had to work, had a Christian education.

Can this be done? YES!

We should abandon the Prussian model school! It is expensive, and homeschoolers have **proven** the effectiveness of teaching children in small groups of mixed ages. Thanks to homeschooling we have excellent curriculum .

Missionary minded Christians should organize mini-schools, micro-schools, one room school houses, homeschool cooperatives, and tutoring. They should do this even if their church is not doing it.

The truth is that there are far too many government employees sitting in our Christian church pews. Sadly, few ministers have the courage to bite the hand that feeds them. If Christian children are going to be rescued it will be by individual Christians taking action. Rescue is not likely to come in the form of Prussian-style Christian schools.

Giving a child a sound Christian education and getting them **out** of the government school is likely the **most** important and effective missionary work they will ever do.

[DManA]

Amen.

[KeyLargo]

Ahmadinejad to meet with Pope

Rome, May. 29, 2008 (CWNews.com) - Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is likely to meet with Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) during a visit to Rome this week, according to some Italian media reports. But the circumstances of the meeting— if it takes place— remain unclear.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=58733

[wintertime]

I agree to a point but can we close Pandora’s box?
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You bet we can!

If John Neumann could start a Catholic school system from nothing, staffed with dedicated volunteers, then there is no reason that Christians can't do the same today! We are cut from the **same** spiritual cloth.

We can do it if we abandon the Prussian model school. By way of mini-schools, dame schools in the home, one room school houses, homeschool cooperatives, tutoring centers and dedicated volunteers **every** could have an affordable ( or free) Christian ( Catholic or Protestant) education.

Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) should see this as the **most** important and effective missionary work they will ever do.

[wintertime]

“You're right. I think you will see a number of us Catholic FReepers agreeing with you that the state of catechesis within the Church is abysmal.”( Markomalley)
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Please read post #85.

[NYer]

Yes and yes! The culture has a very strong influence on youth. We can protect them only to a certain point and after that, we must pray. The responsibility of a truly loving parent is to help their children reach Heaven.

St. Monica, pray for us!

St. Monica was married by arrangement to a pagan official in North Africa, who was much older than she, and although generous, was also violent tempered. His mother lived with them and was equally difficult, which proved a constant challenge to St. Monica.  She had three children: Augustine, Navigius, and Perpetua.  Through her patience and prayers, she was able to convert her husband and his mother to the Catholic faith in 370.  He died a year later. 

Perpetua and Navigius entered the religious Life.  St. Augustine was much more difficult, as she had to pray for him for 17 years, begging the prayers of priests who, for a while, tried to avoid her because of her persistence at this seemingly hopeless endeavor.  One priest did console her by saying, "it is not possible that the son of so many tears should perish." 

This thought, coupled with a vision that she had received, strengthened her.  St. Augustine was baptized by St. Ambrose in 387.  St. Monica died later that same year, on the way back to Africa from Rome in the Italian town of Ostia.

[DManA]

Liberalism basically states that I can do as I want to do.

I disagree. Classical Liberalism states that we should be largely free from the confines of arbitrary and unjust human institutions, to do what we want guided by our own consciences. This is the official point of view of Free Republic (as I understand it) and also the point of view of GOD when he warned the Israelites not to appoint a king to rule them.

[DManA]

then there is no reason that Christians can't do the same today!

I believe we are being imprisoned in a welfare state because Christians abdicated our duty to care for the poor to the state. Same thing goes with our abysmal state run school system.

[wintertime]

Agreed!

We can escape though. As I said, if John Neumann could do it, we can too.

[wintertime]

Yes and yes! The culture has a very strong influence on youth. We can protect them only to a certain point and after that, we must pray.

So?...St. Monica had a 60% success rate. That is better than Christian youth today. While St. Augustine did join the faith, I bet he still had to bear the temporal and spiritual consequences of his decisions. ( Not a good time, I'd bet.)

We certain **can** protect our youth, and one of the better ways to do that is to homeschool! ( (90% remain faithful) or send them to a fully Christian school that **fully** supports the worldview being taught at home.

Sending a child into the atheistic government schools is like a "spit and a prayer". Should we tempt God by doing this? It is like pushing a kid out of a plane with a defective parachute. If you do that, then definitely pray for the child, and ( while your at it) pray for God's forgiveness for yourself!)

The following are the statistics. As Laura Ingram would say, "Read 'em and weep!"

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_20050404-salt-and-light.htm

The research data on the success of the public schools in indoctrinating Christian youth with humanistic or neo-pagan worldviews is overwhelming. The Nehemiah Institute's worldview PEERS test shows that 83-percent of the children from committed Christian families in public schools adopt a secular humanist or Marxist socialist worldview. At the SBC's 2002 annual meeting, the Southern Baptist Council on Family Life reported, among other disturbing things, that 88-percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at age 18. Barna Research reports that only 9-percent of born-again teens believe in moral absolutes, and more than half believe that Jesus sinned while He was on earth. We believe the fact that 80-percent of Christian families send their children to public schools is a prime reason for this lost legacy.

If Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) **really** love their kids, they will **stop** being idiots, and they will **stop** sending their kids to government schools.

If Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) **really** love their kids, and **really** want to be effective missionaries they will see that their own kids get a thoroughly faith based education and they will rescue the children of the poor and single moms as well.

Christians who really love their kids and those of their congregation will get their kids **OUT** of the government schools, even if their churches don't help them! They will join with other individuals and make it happen. With dame schools, and home school cooperatives it **can** be done.

Can we depend on our churches to rescue our children? NO! Why?

Answer: There are too many government school employees sitting in the pews. Few ministers will bite the hand that feeds them.

[wintertime]

tiki; markomalley; SkyPilot

Please read post #94. It is my response to his comments in his post #90.

[Marysecretary]

I’m not giving anyone’s name or church here on these threads. You’ll just have to take my word for it since we know him personally. He and my husband have been friends for over 60 years.

[markomalley]

Classical Liberalism states that we should be largely free from the confines of arbitrary and unjust human institutions, to do what we want guided by our own consciences.

I agree with the part of your definition that is bolded. However, I would submit that it applies to _all_ institutions, not merely political institutions.

This is the official point of view of Free Republic (as I understand it)

Follows is the statement exerpted on the home page of the site:

In our continuing fight for freedom, for America and our constitution and against totalitarianism, socialism, tyranny, terrorism, etc., Free Republic stands firmly on the side of right, i.e., the conservative side. Believing that the best defense is a strong offense, we (myself and those whom I'm trying to attract to FR) support the strategy of taking the fight to the enemy as opposed to allowing the enemy the luxury of conducting their attacks on us at home on their terms and on their schedule.

…

As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. We also oppose the United Nations or any other world government body that may attempt to impose its will or rule over our sovereign nation and sovereign people. We believe in defending our borders, our constitution and our national sovereignty.

…

We aggressively defend our God-given and first amendment guaranteed rights to free speech, free press, free religion, and freedom of association, as well as our constitutional right to control the use and content of our own personal private property. Despite the wailing of the liberal trolls and other doom & gloom naysayers, we feel no compelling need to allow them a platform to promote their repugnant and obnoxious propaganda from our forum. Free Republic is not a liberal debating society. We are conservative activists dedicated to defending our rights, defending our constitution, defending our republic and defending our traditional American way of life.

Our God-given liberty and freedoms are not negotiable.

Whether or not the above equates to "classical liberalism," I don't know. In some aspects, yes. In others, no. (IMHO)

and also the point of view of GOD when he warned the Israelites not to appoint a king to rule them.

On this part, I firmly disagree. God did NOT say to the Israelites that they were to be guided by their conscience. He had laid out His law for them prior to warning them against the appointment of a king.

[DManA]

That is what informed their conscienceses. His Living Word and the Holy Spirit informs ours.

He had laid out His law for them

[dangus]

Any reason why you left off the question mark, which drastically changes the meaning of the headline?

(Don’t bother excusing your action; I won’t read it.)

[dangus]

So you're saying these Catholics didn't have a clue what their church taught? That indicates this has less to do with the Protestants aggressively proselytizing and more to do with the individual not being engaged in the Catholic church in the first place.

I would agree very strongly with your statement, as edited; I would only say that it's not an alternative explanation to aggressive prosetylization, but is fully complementary with it. Further, I'd say there's a frequent attitude among many Protestants that attacks on Christianity are fine, so long as the Catholic Church is the focal point (case in point: The Da Vinci Code).

Much of the agressive evangelization has a measure of success precisely because Catholic instruction is so poor. Not only do former Catholics accept Protestants' slanders against the church because they are too ignorant to know the truth ("Hey, I guess REAL Catholics DO worship Mary... my aunt had statues in her home, and was always kneeling before the statue of Mary at church!"), but Protestants also even miseducate Catholics. For instance:

Protestants so often insist that Catholics believe works are neccesary to attain salvation, that many Catholics are starting to believe it. That's one reason I recommend "the Soul of the Apostolate" as a book for spiritual guidance, because it exposes so completely the dreadful consequences of trying to work your way into Heaven.

You will NOT hear Catholics state "sola fidelis" for two reasons:

1. What the Catholic Church criticized Luther's movement for is something now disavowed by most Lutheran groups: that sin, even unrepentant sinhas no consequences, so long as the sinner has faith in God.

2. That faith is a product of grace, and instruments of receiving grace, such as the sacraments, are effective.

But no insignificant number of Catholics actually believe it when Protestants tell them the Catholic Church believes that works are necessary for salvation, in spite of the bible, and authors such as St. Therese Lisieux, St. Maximilian Kolbe, Jean-Beaptist Chautard, St. Francis, etc.