First the Protestants, Now the Cults: Will We (the Catholic Church) Be Ready?

Catholic Exchange ^ | May 29, 2008 | Mary Kochan

[Marysecretary]

What motivates people? I’d say we want these good folk to know the truth about salvation and a host of other truths of the Bible. It’s not because we hate anyone!

[NYer]

I disagree with them on some doctrinal points

Name them.

[NYer]

I know that the Catholic church has changed it's position on some things, like whether priests can marry, whether Mary was eternally a virgin and was assumed into heaven rather than dying a human death, whether the apocrypha was divinely inspired.

Please provide specifics when you make these statements. Thank you!

[Marysecretary]

Catholic schools in Syracuse, NY, are closing and so have several churches. The non-denominational churches are growing by leaps and bounds.

[NYer]

Thanks for posting these statistics. The only thing they affirm is that there is a serious problem in catechizing Catholics .... period .... nothing more. But thanks for taking the time to post them.

[NYer]

Our non-denominational, former American Baptist Church, has welcomed a great many former Catholics, including its pastor and my husband. No apostasy there. These are all fine Christians who love the freedom in our church.

Interesting. What is the name of the pastor? And into which church was he ordained?

[wintertime]

Name them.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you kidding? Not me! I try very hard **not** to start religious flame wars.

Personally, when I meet people of another religion, I seriously try to focus in our commonalities, not our differences.

When it comes to Catholicism ( which I **highly** respect) and my religion ( active member for 26 years) there is **far** more in common than not.

I believe that each person should sincerely and seriously pray about where God wants them to be. If they do that, God will lead them to the denomination in which he can best use them, and they will bloom.

One more thing,... I have little respect for the anti-Catholic and anti-Mormon bashers on FR. Honestly, given the level and intensity of their venom, I think they would burn members of these two religions at the stake, if they could get away with it.

[tiki]

As I was reading them, I was wondering about those same statistics for other churches. I can only speak from my own experience but the huge Methodist church that I grew up in is a mere shell of its former self. I was looking at their yearbook and most classes had less than 4 children in them and one had only one.

Part of the hemorrhaging has been caused by the culture. In my day MOST people went to church. For many it was nothing more that a social, cultural thing. For the most part those who continue to attend a church do it out of a deep conviction because society no longer looks down on those who have no religious affiliation.

[hosepipe]

[ Frankly, Protestant churches sometimes seem useful to me as training wheels for fallen-away Catholics to draw closer to the Catholic Church while they aren’t yet ready to make the plunge. ]

Good attitude I would say.. After all one sheep pen or another is just a sheep pen(John ch 10).. I agree..

[Grunthor]

Now how can all those stats be true, and the Catholic church be considered “growing” in this country at the same time?

[wintertime]

Thanks for posting these statistics. The only thing they affirm is that there is a serious problem in catechizing Catholics .... period .... nothing more.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly! What do Catholics expect?

Far too many send their children into government schools whose entire curriculum is based on a god-less worldview!

Bruce Shortt has reported to the Southern Baptist Convention that the number of children remaining active in their faith after graduation is 20% or **less**! Why would it be any different for Catholic Christian youth? In contrast, greater than 90% of homeschool youth remain active and faithful.

The **MOST** important mission field of **ALL** Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) is their **own** children!!!! Their next most important mission field is the children of their congregation!

NO Christian child ( Catholic or Protestant) should ever step foot in a government school that is required by law to preach an atheistic Secular Humanistic worldview. If a Christian turns his children over to the Romans, they should **not** be surprised to get a Roman back.

All Christians should be looking for ways to get their children out of the government schools. They should be supporting inexpensive and parent run one room school houses, mini-schools, micro-schools, homeschool cooperatives, individual tutoring, etc. And...If the churches can not afford to run these parent organized schools, at the very minimum, they could open their doors to their buildings to help them.

No Christian child ( Catholic or Protestant) should be left behind. If the congregants **really** cared about their congregation's children they would find a way for every child to have **free** Christian ( Catholic or Protestant) education!

These children would then be able to defend their faith in the college classroom and workplace. They would **know** why they are Christian.

Catholic and Protestant teachers should also get out of the government schools. By teaching there they are upholding, supporting, and abetting an atheistic worldview that they **KNOW** is a lie. What on earth are they teaching the children by their example? Answer:

* Christians teach material that they **know** are lies.
* Christians will abandon their principles for a pay check.
* Christian are too weak and timid to find work outside the government school.
* Christians teachers who attempt to sneak a little salt and light into the schools are sneaky and sly.

Great lessons there! ( sarc) ( eyeroll!)

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_we_are_loosing_our_children.htm

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_20050404-salt-and-light.htm
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200604/200604_036_BeyondBelief.cfm

[wintertime]

please read post #71.

[tiki]

I agree to a point but can we close Pandora’s box? How many women can afford to stay home with their children and homeschool. The 60s, women’s lib, atheistic schools.

All 4 of my grandchildren are going to public school but for 2 of them their mother actually went to school with them. She corrected the teachers, she encouraged prayer, courtesy, she changed the landscape and I’m not joking or exaggerating.

She is now working in the school system, she just won awards for the most outstanding staff member and most outstanding substitute, even though she only subbed when they could not get a substitute. She has made a difference in the lives of teachers and students. I truly believe that God has given her a great gift and she is using it well.

My grandchildren pray at all mealtimes and if you are sitting at their table, they expect you to hold hands with them as they pray. They visibly pray (the sign of the Cross before and after the prayer) before competitions and even tests. They have other children who follow them. Granted, most of them are already from active Christian homes there are some who have convinced their parents to find a faith home.

I teach OCIA, it is for children who have no religious upbringing to speak of, sometimes they are there because their parents are coming back to the faith, but a surprising number of them are there because they choose to be. They are bringing their parents along.

So while I think homeschooling is wonderful, there are exceptions. Sometimes we are called to be in the world but not of the world.

I think that the statistics that you quoted show more that many people who homeschool are also living their faith and not just going to church one hour a week. It takes a lot of work and sacrifice to homeschool.

I have a lot more to say but I have to go to a Rosary service for a friend who died.

[SkyPilot]

No problem.

[SkyPilot]

Catholic schools in Syracuse, NY, are closing and so have several churches. The non-denominational churches are growing by leaps and bounds.

.[ I grew up in Syracuse and can attest to what you posted.

It is fact.

Furthermore, here in NJ I meet many, many ex-Catholics who are Conservative and have chosen to join Evangelical churches.

These are usually younger families.

The older couples tend to remain Catholic, but they have great criticisms of the church and seem bitter.

These are only my personal observations, and are not "fact."

[Always Right]

Even if I conceded about the illegals, (which I don’t). How do you account for all the newcomers to Catholicism?

What increase are you talking about? Just because your parish has increased, overall Catholics have remained 25% of the population for the last 50 years. This all edged increase isn't.

[Celtman]

Fifty years ago, America was about 70% Protestant and 20% Catholic. Today, it’s about 25% Protestant and 25% Catholic.

Where do you get your figures?  According to Adherents.com, the Pew Research Council reported 52% "Protestant", 24% "Catholic", ad 2% Mormon in 2002.  For 2000, Harris reports 71.7% Christian, broke down as 49.5% "All Protestants", 19.9% "Catholic", and 1.4% Mormon. 

Growth figures from 1990 to 2001 include:

Assemblies of God        +68%
Churches of Christ       +47%
Pentecostal/Charismatic  +38%
Episcopalian/Anglican    +13%
Presbyterian             +12%
"Catholic"               +11%

[mdmathis6]

I would suggest that if the Holy Spirit was moving anybody
toward either the Catholic or Protestant faith, he was moving them not for the properties of the each faith per se but rather moving them closer to Christ and his likeness. The Holy Spirit, aware of the deep spiritual constructions of each soul, will prompt those souls in directions that are best conducive to Godly character and development. If it means one sort of church or other...so be it as long as Christ likeness is the end fruit!

[markomalley]

So you're saying these Catholics didn't have a clue what their church taught?

You're right. I think you will see a number of us Catholic FReepers agreeing with you that the state of catechesis within the Church is abysmal.

But it's more fundamental than that (at least IMHO). This is a phenomenon of liberal modernism, which was basically started with the Great Western Schism (or, as some call it, the Protestant Reformation). Liberalism basically states that I can do as I want to do. Reformation theology (through the 5 solas) essentially says the same thing, but on a theological basis. (Please note: I am talking about liberalism in the classic sense, not the socialism embraced by modern "liberals") -- with the invasion of that idea into the modern culture, in large part, through the mass media, there is no doubt on my part that there would be a huge number of nominal Catholics who received only a basic catechesis (if that) would find their modernistic, liberal ideals better captured in the various schismatic sects (i.e., Protestant, Restorationist, Evangelical, Charismatic denominatons).

But is it a movement of the Holy Spirit? Only if modernism and liberalism are movements of the Holy Spirit.

As a point of interest, you all may be interested in reading Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae, by Leo XIII. It sort of speaks to this issue, particularly as it appears in this hemisphere.

[vladimir998]

Richard Bennett can’t be taken to seriously. I don’t even know if his “conversion” is genuine. Anti-Catholic ministries aren’t the best resources for learning about Catholicism and many of these “former priests” seem to be little more than anti-Catholic hustlers bitter against the Church because of priestly celibacy.

Bennett’s work has never impressed me. When he was taken to the woodshed by a kid named Jason Evert at a conference all he could do was mock Evert. He couldn’t actually debate him or even give a good response. Nope. Not much to impress me there.