Posted on 05/18/2008 6:49:57 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
b. 2 Thess. 2:13–14. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. James 1:18. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. 2 Cor. 3:3, 6. Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.… who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 1 Cor. 2:12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
c. 2 Tim. 1:9–10. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 1 Pet. 2:9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Rom. 8:2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Eph. 2:1–10. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
d. Acts 26:18. [I send thee] to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 1 Cor. 2:10, 12. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.… Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Eph. 1:17–18. … that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. 2 Cor. 4:6. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
e. Ezek. 36:26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
f. Ezek. 11:19. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh. Deut. 30:6. And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Ezek. 36:27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. John 3:5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Titus 3:5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. 1 Pet. 1:23. … being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
g. John 6:44–45. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Acts 16:14. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
h. Ps. 110:3. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Matt. 11:28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Rev. 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rom. 6:16–18. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Eph. 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Phil. 1:29. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.
i. 2 Tim. 1:9. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. Eph. 2:8–9. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Rom. 9:11. … (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) …
k. 1 Cor. 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Rom. 8:7–9. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Titus 3:4–5. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
l. John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Ezek. 36:27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 1 John 5:1. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. Cf. 1 John 3:9.
m. Gen. 17:7. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Luke 18:15–16. And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Acts 2:39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. John 3:3, 5. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.… Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 1 John 5:12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. See Luke 1:15.
n. John 3:8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
o. John 16:7–8. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. 1 John 5:12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
p. Matt. 13:14–15. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive. Acts 28:24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. Cf. Acts 13:48. Matt. 22:14. For many are called, but few are chosen.
q. Matt. 13:20–21. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Matt. 7:22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Heb. 6:4–5. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come …
r. John 6:37, 64–66. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.… But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 8:44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 13:18. I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Cf. John 17:12.
s. Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 1 John 4:2–3. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. John 14:6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Eph. 2:12–13. … that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. John 4:22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John 17:3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Rom. 10:13–17. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
t. 2 John 9–11. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 1 Cor. 16:22. If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. Gal. 1:6–8. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Thank you Alex.
Please tell me if I understand this correctly.
1. God decided which of us will be saved.
2. Those who are saved can only act in God’s name after God “turned on” their ability.
3. God saves His elect, even if their body does not let them act in His name.
4. If God did not choose you to be one of the elect, you can do nothing to be saved.
We can do nothing good unless God touches our life and gives the ability to do good. Then, after being given this gift from God, we can do nothing bad.
Thanks,
fred
1) Yes
2) No
3) No
4) Yes
& your extra credit comment: No
Would you please give me the short, “Cliff Notes” version of 2 and 3.
thanks
ROTFL
There are a grand total of three sentences that comprise points 2 and 3. I don't think I can make it any shorter than that. I would recommend you go the opposite direction, and look at the prior chapters to put some context around it, since later chapters are building upon prior ones. You also might consider looking at the verses in the footnotes.
ROTFL
There are a grand total of three sentences that comprise points 2 and 3. I don’t think I can make it any shorter than that. I would recommend you go the opposite direction, and look at the prior chapters to put some context around it, since later chapters are building upon prior ones. You also might consider looking at the verses in the footnotes.
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You laugh at me and tell me I am wrong.
It makes sense then that we really understand what The Gospel is then.
I have tried to be nice so I can understand your view, and as normal, you hide behind the “scholarly” views of others.
First: knock off the personal attacks. If you expect to learn anything from me, leave your attitude at the door.
Second: you'll "come up with different answers" less often, if you understand the larger context first. IMO you'll continue to get "different answers" as long as you're trying to fit individual pieces into your existing framework of Mormonism. Trust me now, they won't fit or make sense if you're doing that.
Third: I never do my students' homework, ever. Memorization and regurgitation of raw facts isn't how I teach. I don't do Cliff's Notes. When you've learned something for yourself, you'll be able to give the "Cliff's Notes version" back to me, and that's how I'll know that you understand it.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, do you want to learn from me, or not?
Some related material:
Q. 60. Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature?
A. They who, having never heard the gospel, know not Jesus Christ, and believe not in him, cannot be saved, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, or the laws of that religion which they profess; neither is there salvation in any other, but in Christ alone, who is the Savior only of his body the church.
Q. 67. What is effectual calling?
A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s almighty power and grace, whereby (out of his free and special love to his elect, and from nothing in them moving him thereunto) he doth, in his accepted time, invite and draw them to Jesus Christ, by his word and Spirit; savingly enlightening their minds, renewing and powerfully determining their wills, so as they (although in themselves dead in sin) are hereby made willing and able freely to answer his call, and to accept and embrace the grace offered and conveyed therein.
Q. 68. Are the elect only effectually called?
A. All the elect, and they only, are effectually called; although others may be, and often are, outwardly called by the ministry of the word, and have some common operations of the Spirit; who, for their willful neglect and contempt of the grace offered to them, being justly left in their unbelief, do never truly come to Jesus Christ.
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Having read your source material, the one thing that makes the rest of of your belief of no importance to me is how your teachings say that if God did not choose you or me, we are not and cannot be saved, and for His pleasure, you and/or I and everyone else, He did not choose to be in His presence will, be condemned to hell.
I was trying to give you the chance to teach me that I am wrong about your beliefs.
Second: you’ll “come up with different answers” less often, if you understand the larger context first. IMO you’ll continue to get “different answers” as long as you’re trying to fit individual pieces into your existing framework of Mormonism. Trust me now, they won’t fit or make sense if you’re doing that.
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Long before I joined the LDS Church, I keep asking why the religion I followed got different answers from the one Word of God then many other religions got. I had not even heard of the “Mormons” at the time.
4. If God did not choose you to be one of the elect, you can do nothing to be saved, but you really don't care, because you don't want Salvation from the God of the Bible.
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From what I understand about Alex Murphy's religious teachings, I can only do what God has decided I can do.
If, as you say, I “really don't care”, it is only because I am following God's will for my actions, according to Alex Murphy's teaching that is.
***From what I understand about Alex Murphy’s religious teachings, I can only do what God has decided I can do.***
Nope.
You are born in sin, and can only repent of that sin if God, through the person of the Holy Spirit, quickens you unto faith in Christ.
If God doesn’t show you mercy, He is glorified in His justice.
If God does show you mercy, He is glorified in being merciful.
Your objections are answered quite clearly in Romans, chapter 9. Take up and read.
***From what I understand about Alex Murphy’s religious teachings, I can only do what God has decided I can do.***
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You are born in sin, and can only repent of that sin if God, through the person of the Holy Spirit, quickens you unto faith in Christ.
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You use different words, but they mean the same.
It matters not what His reason are, “can only repent of that sin if God” means to me that “if God” does not decide I am to repent, I cannot repent.
And “if God” decides I am to repent. I must repent.
Your objections are answered quite clearly in Romans, chapter 9. Take up and read.
There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]
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Yes, and in light of what we are taught in the chapter before, we are “heirs of God”, we are part of Father's family, like Jesus is part of the His family.
(Romans 8:17-19.)
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Being “joint-heirs with Christ”, we will be a brother or sister of Christ, not an underling.
Our skills and talents may be different then His, yet, we will not be less then Him, nor will we be greater then Him.
“we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” that is, glorified with Him.
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