Posted on 05/16/2008 3:19:30 PM PDT by netmilsmom
Stemming from this comment
>>I think the RCC doctrines are a product of the enemy<<
Please tell us where we stand here. Examples welcome, but I'm not sure that actual names can be used when quoting another FReeper, so date and thread title may be better.
Because in every Catechism book from my first grade to my daughter's fifth this year, there are footnotes to explain. Without the numbers, it has no reference and is NOT from the official site.
As I said, I wasn't aware comprehension is impossible without footnotes.
More like a brother. (Dixie=Living in the South/Yooper=Born in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan)
Perhaps the problem is with the site. The correct link to the Vatican.va site is preferable to the other, when quoting the Vatican.
For those who are of a different religion, using explanatory footnotes would seem especially salutary, given the lack of exposure. Otherwise any given reader might wrongly assume that the Catechism was understood, might be overly legalistic in interpreting it, or might totally misinterpret it.
Catholicism is a religion rich in context and history. In addition, it addresses the individual’s faith journey fully respecting the depth and mystery of each life and death. What God (Christ) could say in few words, humans struggle to apply and practice; for Protestants to impose an exclusive one-size-fits-all rigid, formulaic structure over the love story of God and humankind does a disservice to His redemptive grace and the eternal soul who receives it. In my opinion.
Who said "impossible?"
Without the footnotes, the references (that make the meaning clearer) are not present. Stripping out the footnotes is a good way to hide the source of the four quotes: Second Peter, St. Irenaeus, St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas.
Stripping out the footnotes (and thus these references) makes CCC460 seem arbitrary and capricious, rather than a reference to the centuries-old theology of Theosis.
"460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.81"
Wow -- the title of this thread should be: Do Catholics consider Mormons Catholics???
And since this is in the Catechism then all Catholics are required to accept this or they are not Catholics no matter how many sacraments they receive.
The correct reference is the “Catechism of the Catholic Church.”
Too late. A judge would find crdebility missing after getting caught once. The credebility is gone. Maybe calling Buckhead at this point would help
Vatican.org is not owned by the Vatican.
The missing numbers mean it was not lifted from Vatican.va.
If one word was missing it PROVES that it was not a direct quote from the Catechism (or it should have been stated that way)
Spin, spin, spin. The MSM couldn’t do it better.
Right — there is a big difference.
One is accurate, the other is not.
WHY-oh-WHY do you guys keep ARGUING the UNARGUABLE? Religion is FAITH BASED! You can't use LOGIC to "prove it"!
Do y'all just like to roll around in the mud?
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Uncle Chip:
Really, your post is disingenious. You should know by now as the issue of how the Catholic Church see the Mormon faith as been dealt with here over, and over, and over, and over, again. So in case you don’t know, here is a post that wrote in another thread. I dealt with a comment about Rev. Mohler of the Southern Baptist Convention and his view of Mormonism. I have what I wrote in its entirerity:
“Since you brought up the Catholic Church I thought I would respond. I will state up front that I am Catholic and while I disagree with the Southern Baptist Convention on numerous doctrines, on the point of whether Mormons can be considered orthodox Christians, I have to agree with Rev. Mohler.
The Catholic Church believes (as does the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Historic Protestant Confessions, Anglican, Lutheran, Reformed, etc) that the Sacred Scriptures do teach the Holy Trinity. From the Catholic Churches view, the Sacred Scriptures “teach firmly, faithfully, and without error that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided in the Sacred Scriptures” (Catechism of the Catholic Church par. 107). However, Catholic hermeneutic principles include three main criteria of interpretation Sacred Scripture in accordance with the Holy Spirit who inspired it. 1) Be especially attentive to the content and unity of the whole Scripture, 2) Read the Scriptures within the living Tradition of the whole Church and 3) Be Attentive to the analogy of faith, i.e. the coherence of the truths among themselves in the whole plan of salvation.
Thus, reflecting on the Sacred Scriptures and the Sacred Tradition of the Church (i.e. expressed in the Liturgy of the Church, Consensus of the Early Church Fathers). The Church in the Four Great Early Councils (Nicea 325, Constantinople 381, Ephesus 431, and Chalcedon 451) formally defined the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity and developed its Christological formulations regarding Christ, the second Person of the Holy Trinity.
So from the Catholic perspective, what makes one a Christian is Baptism in the Holy Trinity, which also requires a belief in the Divinity of Christ and his Passion, Death and Resurrection. The Sacrament of Baptism and the underlying Theology behind it is critical, from the Catholic Theological view, of who is a Christian.
As someone who works with RCIA (assisting those who are seeking to become Catholic) I can state the following 1) While Mormons may use the Trinitarian Formula to Baptize, the underlying Theology of Mormonism is not consistent with how the Catholic Church understands the Trinity (Eastern Orthodox and Traditional Confessional Protestants share the same belief about the Trinity). Therefore, Mormons who enter the Catholic Church are “Unconditionally Baptized”. 2) While the Protestant Traditions do not agree with the Catholic Churches Doctrine on some issues (and this is ok), among the Doctrines we do share is belief in the Holy Trinity and the Divinity of Christ and therefore persons from the Traditional Protestant Confessions (Anglican, Reformed, Lutheran, Methodists, and Baptists) are “not rebaptized” .
So In summary, Mormons are not orthodox Christians as their understanding of Trinitarian and Christological Doctrines are in opposition to the Doctrines taught by the Early Councils of the Church and the Creeds of the early Church (Apostles and Nicene).”
And in case you don’t want to take my word for it, I have provided a link which should end this issue. So at this point, if you continue to say that Catholics consider Mormons “fellow Catholics”, IMO, you would be bearing a false witness as now you know Rome’s clear position on the matter.
No, I mean the references to the other mass of literature where Catholics claim that we become little gods. Surely St. Thomas did not write just one little sentence on such a great mystery. The popes must have written on the subject. Others too must have written tomes on the subject. Could you please point them out to me?
My link was to the Vatican.va, directly from the Vatican, as anyone can see from my post. Hit the link, which I kindly furnished, and you will be wisked away to Vaticanland.
The excerpt I posted was VERBATIM from the link, the first time without the footnote numbers for clarity, and the second time with the footnote numbers, for further clarity.
You still have no answer for why you were shocked to read those words straight from the RCC catechism.
Although the fact you were shocked by the words of the catechism, and even doubted that they came from the RCC but instead from some "anti-Catholic website," with or without the footnotes, is a step forward.
God willing, you'll stay on course. The words of #460 of the RCC catechism are indeed shocking for any Bible-believing Christian.
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