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To: Iscool
I've come to the conclusion that the debate is not whether you guys worship things other than God, but the debate should be about what you define as worship...

Exactly! Such a discussion can be both respectful and informative.

In some of our eyes, you guys worship Mary...From a biblical perspective, it appears you guys worship Mary... Where is YOUR line??? When does veneration become worship???

A question asked in a respectful manner deserves a respectful reply and I will try my best.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church we get the following statements:

I. "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2084 God makes himself known by recalling his all-powerful loving, and liberating action in the history of the one he addresses: "I brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." The first word contains the first commandment of the Law: "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him. . . . You shall not go after other gods." (Deut 6:13-14) God's first call and just demand is that man accept him and worship him.

2085 The one and true God first reveals his glory to Israel. (Cf. Ex 19:16-25; 24:15-18) The revelation of the vocation and truth of man is linked to the revelation of God. Man's vocation is to make God manifest by acting in conformity with his creation "in the image and likeness of God":

There will never be another God, Trypho, and there has been no other since the world began . . . than he who made and ordered the universe. We do not think that our God is different from yours. He is the same who brought your fathers out of Egypt "by his powerful hand and his outstretched arm." We do not place our hope in some other god, for there is none, but in the same God as you do: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (St. Justin, Dial. cum Tryphone Judaeo 11,1:Pg 6, 497)
2086 "The first commandment embraces faith, hope, and charity. When we say 'God' we confess a constant, unchangeable being, always the same, faithful and just, without any evil. It follows that we must necessarily accept his words and have complete faith in him and acknowledge his authority. He is almighty, merciful, and infinitely beneficent. Who could not place all hope in him? Who could not love him when contemplating the treasures of goodness and love he has poured out on us? Hence the formula God employs in the Scripture at the beginning and end of his commandments: 'I am the LORD.'" (Rom 1:18-32)
Faith: We believe in God because He is God.
Hope: The confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God.
Charity/Love: To love God above all things and all creatures for Him and because of Him.

These are the three Theological Virtues that are directed to God, and to God alone. Even the love we show Mary and the saints is only because of their closeness to God and because they are loved by Him, not because of an intrinsic goodness in themselves apart from God.

II. "HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2095 The theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity inform and give life to the moral virtues. Thus charity leads us to render to God what we as creatures owe him in all justice. The virtue of religion disposes us to have this attitude.

Adoration

2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve," says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy. (Lk 4:8; cf. Deut 6:13)

The attributes of being "the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love" are given to God alone, and never to Mary or any of the saints.
Sacrifice

2099 It is right to offer sacrifice to God as a sign of adoration and gratitude, supplication and communion: "Every action done so as to cling to God in communion of holiness, and thus achieve blessedness, is a true sacrifice." (St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 10,6: PL 41, 283)

2100 Outward sacrifice, to be genuine, must be the expression of spiritual sacrifice: "The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit. . . . " (Ps 51:17) The prophets of the Old Covenant often denounced sacrifices that were not from the heart or not coupled with love of neighbor. (Cf. Am 5:21-25; Isa 1:10-20) Jesus recalls the words of the prophet Hosea: "I desire mercy, and not sacrifice." (Mt 9:13; 12:7; cf. Hos 6:6) The only perfect sacrifice is the one that Christ offered on the cross as a total offering to the Father's love and for our salvation. (Cf. 9:13-14) By uniting ourselves with his sacrifice we can make our lives a sacrifice to God.

For Catholic sacrifice is at the heart of worship. This is why the Mass is so important to us. It is our sacrifice, our supreme act of worship to God. It needs to be noted here again, lest our beliefs be misunderstood, that we do not believe that at the Mass that we are offering any other sacrifice than that of our Lord Jesus Christ upon the Cross. Our sacrifice is not anything that we bring to the altar, it is not our offerings, not our prayers, not our praise but the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Nor do are we sacrificing Jesus anew. Rather that one sacrifice on Calvary two thousand years ago is made present to us here and now. This supreme sacrifice is made to God, and to God alone through Jesus Christ; it is never offered to Mary or any of the saints.

With regard to the veneration of Mary:

II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." (Lk 1:48; Paul VI, Marialis cultus 56) The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." (Lumen gentium 66) The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. (Cf. Paul VI, Marialis cultus 42; Sacrosanctum concilium 103)

The veneration directed toward Mary is basically an act of filial love based on her excellence as the Mother of God. Thus this love of Mary is derived from and directed toward the love of God who alone is loved for His own sake. Nor do any prayers directed toward Mary ever attribute to her divine attributes or rely on any intrinsic powers of hers. Rather they only seek her intercessions before the throne of God who is the source of all blessings. In the Litany of the Saints, when we invoke any of the persons of the Trinity we cry out: Lord, have mercy. When we invoke Mary or any of the saints we cry out: Pray for us.

You may still think that our veneration of Mary and the saints is exaggerated and misplaced but it is hardly the same as the worship we give to God, and to God alone.

561 posted on 05/15/2008 9:15:58 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Thankyou for the response...


564 posted on 05/15/2008 9:40:15 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Petrosius
You may still think that our veneration of Mary and the saints is exaggerated and misplaced but it is hardly the same as the worship we give to God, and to God alone.

And when children in Catholic schools crown statues of Mary as Queen of Heaven this May in festivals all over the world, what should we, they, and you call that????

582 posted on 05/16/2008 5:07:16 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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